Hallo bayernsilber,
nein, es geht schon darum, das Feld so zu beackern, dass man auf den Stand der Dinge kommt.
Jetzt musste es halt auch die unangenehme Seite mal sein.
Man kann auch Opfer werden, wenn man nicht genau aufpasst.
Aber wenn man durch diese nervige Tatsache durch ist, & ein paar Dinge beachtet, macht es, glaube ich, wieder genau so viel Spass, wie vorher. 
Grüsse,
gutso
verrückt ... Ich stelle mir gerade vor, wie gross sie ca. ist. ein 5 kg Barren platt gehauen ... das ist ganz schön gross ...
Grüsse,
gutso
Hab mich mal bei ageka auch mit einer Bewertung bedankt.
Bei Ich darf ich ja nicht mehr. 
Grüsse Euch,
gutso
Hallo Ich, hallo ageka,
danke Euch für die Infos.
Gerade die erst ein Viertel Jahr alten Guides, die Ageka verlinkt hat, sind sehr hilfreich als erster Gedanken-Anstoss.
Die kennen hier im Forum bestimmt noch nicht alle.
Wie gesagt, der Händler bei dem ich ein paar wenige Pd-Pandas bezogen habe scheint ok zu sein.
Aber die Welt ist halt schlecht ... .
Grüsse,
gutso
Und noch ein Guide, den ageka mir geposted hat ...
Es geht zwar wieder nicht explizit um Pd-Pandas, sondern diesmal um Silber- und Gold-Pandas, aber man sollte diese erst 1/4 Jahr alten Gedanken einmal durchdacht haben ... .
Quelle: http://reviews.ebay.com/Counte…0QQugidZ10000000000935653
Und der Text ohne Abbildungen, falls er mal wieder verschwinden sollte.
ZitatAlles anzeigenCounterfeit Pandas, Chinese Silver (and Gold)by: bullioncoins( 128)
306 out of 309 people found this guide helpful.
Guide viewed: 3445 times Tags: silver panda | gold panda | panda | counterfeit | fake
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bullion coin collectors enjoy Chinese panda coins more than almost any other bullion coin series. However, in the past year, counterfeit panda coins (especially silver ones) have flooded the market. This guide will help you avoid counterfeit pandas.
First, when you are looking at an auction for a panda, make sure that the picture shows the denomination (a number, such as 10 or 50, followed by the Yuan symbol -- ). It is believed that all counterfeit pandas are made in China, and presumably the counterfeiters get in less trouble if they leave off the denomination. As a result, the majority of counterfeit pandas do not have the denomination on them. Note that there are a few legitimate pandas that do not include the Yuan marking (such as the 1982 gold ones, and the 1992 Sino-Japanese one).
Then, check the seller's location. Currently, most fake pandas are sold by sellers in China. There are lots of good sellers in China, and there will likely be some people re-selling counterfeits from other countries, but you need to be especially careful with auctions from China.
Check to see if there is a very low price, but a very high shipping charge. Many (but not all!) of the counterfeit pandas are sold by sellers in China, that have shipping charges that account for 90% or more of the total price.
Check the seller's feedback. If their feedback is private, never buy a Chinese panda from them! While some legitimate sellers have private feedback, and it is often safe to buy other items from such sellers, you can't see the words "counterfeit" or "fake" in private feedback. Also, if their feedback is less than about 99%, check their feedback carefully to see what negative comments there are. Sellers often get undeserved negative feedback, but reading the negative feedback should give you an idea of whether or not counterfeits are likely (for example, complaints of slow shipping may not be a problem, whereas complaints of items not as advertised should be taken as a warning).
Make sure that "plate" or "plated" does not appear in the title or description of the auction. Legitimate sellers that got stuck with a counterfeit panda may state that it is "silver plated", for example, to cover themselves.
If the silver panda is dated 2001 or earlier, the reeded edge should be straight (the side of the coin should look like this: ||||||||||||); if the silver pand is dated 2002 or later, the reeded edge should be slanted (like this: \\\\\\\\\\\\). It is believed that all counterfeits have straight edges, so this is useful in identifying counterfeits from 2002 and later.
See if the item is covered by PayPal Buyer Protection. This is a good indication that the seller is legitimate, and will protect you if the item is counterfeit.
Make sure to pay with a credit card, either through PayPal or directly, or a known escrow service. Never send cash, check, money order, bank wire, or anything except a credit card or known escrow service (one you have heard of before; there are lots of fake escrow services out there). Using a credit card will help ensure that you can get your money back if you get a counterfeit coin.
The presence of a COA (Certiticate of Authenticity) is meaningless. Although real panda coins often include them, some of the counterfeit ones do as well (which may actually be a real COA from a panda with a lower value).
The above tips will help you avoid counterfeit pandas. However, you can't know a counterfeit until you receive it. So if you went through all the above steps, the next thing to do is weigh the coin once you receive it. To do this, you should have a scale that is accurate to 1/10 gram (if you don't have one, don't want to buy one, and have a good relationship with a local jeweler or coin store, you could ask them to weigh it). A scale accurate to 1g can be used for weighing 1oz coins, although 1/10 gram accuracy is better. A 1 ounce silver panda (one from 1989 to present) should weigh at least 31.1g (counterfeits made of copper weigh about 27-28g, and counterfeits with other metals have been seen weighing 21g), although there are reports of a .4g tolerance, which would allow them to weigh as little as 30.7g). Note that it is best to weigh in grams, as it avoids the confusion between troy and avoirdupois ounces (a 1 ounce silver panda weighs about 1.1 ounces on a standard scale weighing in avoirdupois ounces, since precious metals are sold in troy ounces). Note that you should not weigh the plastic that the coin is in. If you do not want to remove it from the plastic, you should take it to a coin dealer to determine if it is counterfeit (even then, many will not be able to make the determination, due to the quality of the counterfeits).
It is possible for a counterfeit silver coin to weigh exactly the same as a real silver coin, but it is not believed that there are any such counterfeit pandas at this time. A counterfeit gold coin, however, will always weigh less than it should (or be larger than it should).
1oz Silver Panda weights, finenesses, and diameters (note that there is discrepancy as to the actual weight and fineness of the 1987 panda)
1983: Proof only, 27g (24.3g of silver), .900 fine silver [no silver marking], 38.6mm
1984: Proof only, 27g (24.3g of silver), .900 fine silver [no silver marking], 38.6mm
1985: Proof only, 27g (24.3g of silver), .900 fine silver [no silver marking], 38.6mm
1986: No silver pandas minted
1987: Proof only, 31.1g or 33.6g, .925 or .999 fine silver [no silver marking], 40mm (possibly 38.6mm)
1988: No silver pandas minted
1989-Present: 31.1g .999 fine silver [marked ".999 1 Oz Ag"], 40mm
Hopefully, this guide will help you enjoy collecting Chinese pandas, without worrying too much about getting caught with counterfeit coins.
Guide ID: 10000000000935653Guide created: 05/12/06 (updated 08/15/06)
Grüsse,
gutso
Und noch ein Guide, den ageka mir geposted hat ...
Es geht zwar wieder nicht explizit um Pd-Pandas, sondern diesmal um Silber- und Gold-Pandas, aber man sollte auch diese erst 1/4 Jahr alten Gedanken schon einmal durchdacht haben ... .
Quelle: http://reviews.ebay.com/Counte…0QQugidZ10000000000935653
Und der Text ohne Abbildungen, falls er mal wieder verschwinden sollte.
ZitatAlles anzeigenCounterfeit Pandas, Chinese Silver (and Gold)by: bullioncoins( 128)
306 out of 309 people found this guide helpful.
Guide viewed: 3445 times Tags: silver panda | gold panda | panda | counterfeit | fake
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bullion coin collectors enjoy Chinese panda coins more than almost any other bullion coin series. However, in the past year, counterfeit panda coins (especially silver ones) have flooded the market. This guide will help you avoid counterfeit pandas.
First, when you are looking at an auction for a panda, make sure that the picture shows the denomination (a number, such as 10 or 50, followed by the Yuan symbol -- ). It is believed that all counterfeit pandas are made in China, and presumably the counterfeiters get in less trouble if they leave off the denomination. As a result, the majority of counterfeit pandas do not have the denomination on them. Note that there are a few legitimate pandas that do not include the Yuan marking (such as the 1982 gold ones, and the 1992 Sino-Japanese one).
Then, check the seller's location. Currently, most fake pandas are sold by sellers in China. There are lots of good sellers in China, and there will likely be some people re-selling counterfeits from other countries, but you need to be especially careful with auctions from China.
Check to see if there is a very low price, but a very high shipping charge. Many (but not all!) of the counterfeit pandas are sold by sellers in China, that have shipping charges that account for 90% or more of the total price.
Check the seller's feedback. If their feedback is private, never buy a Chinese panda from them! While some legitimate sellers have private feedback, and it is often safe to buy other items from such sellers, you can't see the words "counterfeit" or "fake" in private feedback. Also, if their feedback is less than about 99%, check their feedback carefully to see what negative comments there are. Sellers often get undeserved negative feedback, but reading the negative feedback should give you an idea of whether or not counterfeits are likely (for example, complaints of slow shipping may not be a problem, whereas complaints of items not as advertised should be taken as a warning).
Make sure that "plate" or "plated" does not appear in the title or description of the auction. Legitimate sellers that got stuck with a counterfeit panda may state that it is "silver plated", for example, to cover themselves.
If the silver panda is dated 2001 or earlier, the reeded edge should be straight (the side of the coin should look like this: ||||||||||||); if the silver pand is dated 2002 or later, the reeded edge should be slanted (like this: \\\\\\\\\\\\). It is believed that all counterfeits have straight edges, so this is useful in identifying counterfeits from 2002 and later.
See if the item is covered by PayPal Buyer Protection. This is a good indication that the seller is legitimate, and will protect you if the item is counterfeit.
Make sure to pay with a credit card, either through PayPal or directly, or a known escrow service. Never send cash, check, money order, bank wire, or anything except a credit card or known escrow service (one you have heard of before; there are lots of fake escrow services out there). Using a credit card will help ensure that you can get your money back if you get a counterfeit coin.
The presence of a COA (Certiticate of Authenticity) is meaningless. Although real panda coins often include them, some of the counterfeit ones do as well (which may actually be a real COA from a panda with a lower value).
The above tips will help you avoid counterfeit pandas. However, you can't know a counterfeit until you receive it. So if you went through all the above steps, the next thing to do is weigh the coin once you receive it. To do this, you should have a scale that is accurate to 1/10 gram (if you don't have one, don't want to buy one, and have a good relationship with a local jeweler or coin store, you could ask them to weigh it). A scale accurate to 1g can be used for weighing 1oz coins, although 1/10 gram accuracy is better. A 1 ounce silver panda (one from 1989 to present) should weigh at least 31.1g (counterfeits made of copper weigh about 27-28g, and counterfeits with other metals have been seen weighing 21g), although there are reports of a .4g tolerance, which would allow them to weigh as little as 30.7g). Note that it is best to weigh in grams, as it avoids the confusion between troy and avoirdupois ounces (a 1 ounce silver panda weighs about 1.1 ounces on a standard scale weighing in avoirdupois ounces, since precious metals are sold in troy ounces). Note that you should not weigh the plastic that the coin is in. If you do not want to remove it from the plastic, you should take it to a coin dealer to determine if it is counterfeit (even then, many will not be able to make the determination, due to the quality of the counterfeits).
It is possible for a counterfeit silver coin to weigh exactly the same as a real silver coin, but it is not believed that there are any such counterfeit pandas at this time. A counterfeit gold coin, however, will always weigh less than it should (or be larger than it should).
1oz Silver Panda weights, finenesses, and diameters (note that there is discrepancy as to the actual weight and fineness of the 1987 panda)
1983: Proof only, 27g (24.3g of silver), .900 fine silver [no silver marking], 38.6mm
1984: Proof only, 27g (24.3g of silver), .900 fine silver [no silver marking], 38.6mm
1985: Proof only, 27g (24.3g of silver), .900 fine silver [no silver marking], 38.6mm
1986: No silver pandas minted
1987: Proof only, 31.1g or 33.6g, .925 or .999 fine silver [no silver marking], 40mm (possibly 38.6mm)
1988: No silver pandas minted
1989-Present: 31.1g .999 fine silver [marked ".999 1 Oz Ag"], 40mm
Hopefully, this guide will help you enjoy collecting Chinese pandas, without worrying too much about getting caught with counterfeit coins.
Guide ID: 10000000000935653Guide created: 05/12/06 (updated 08/15/06)
Grüsse,
gutso
Und noch ein Guide, den ageka mir geposted hat ...
Es geht zwar wieder nicht explizit um Pd-Pandas, sondern diesmal um Silber- und Gold-Pandas, aber man sollte diese erst 1/4 Jahr alten Gedanken doch einmal durchdacht haben ... .
Quelle: http://reviews.ebay.com/Counte…0QQugidZ10000000000935653
Und der Text ohne Abbildungen, falls er mal wieder verschwinden sollte.
ZitatAlles anzeigenCounterfeit Pandas, Chinese Silver (and Gold)by: bullioncoins( 128)
306 out of 309 people found this guide helpful.
Guide viewed: 3445 times Tags: silver panda | gold panda | panda | counterfeit | fake
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bullion coin collectors enjoy Chinese panda coins more than almost any other bullion coin series. However, in the past year, counterfeit panda coins (especially silver ones) have flooded the market. This guide will help you avoid counterfeit pandas.
First, when you are looking at an auction for a panda, make sure that the picture shows the denomination (a number, such as 10 or 50, followed by the Yuan symbol -- ). It is believed that all counterfeit pandas are made in China, and presumably the counterfeiters get in less trouble if they leave off the denomination. As a result, the majority of counterfeit pandas do not have the denomination on them. Note that there are a few legitimate pandas that do not include the Yuan marking (such as the 1982 gold ones, and the 1992 Sino-Japanese one).
Then, check the seller's location. Currently, most fake pandas are sold by sellers in China. There are lots of good sellers in China, and there will likely be some people re-selling counterfeits from other countries, but you need to be especially careful with auctions from China.
Check to see if there is a very low price, but a very high shipping charge. Many (but not all!) of the counterfeit pandas are sold by sellers in China, that have shipping charges that account for 90% or more of the total price.
Check the seller's feedback. If their feedback is private, never buy a Chinese panda from them! While some legitimate sellers have private feedback, and it is often safe to buy other items from such sellers, you can't see the words "counterfeit" or "fake" in private feedback. Also, if their feedback is less than about 99%, check their feedback carefully to see what negative comments there are. Sellers often get undeserved negative feedback, but reading the negative feedback should give you an idea of whether or not counterfeits are likely (for example, complaints of slow shipping may not be a problem, whereas complaints of items not as advertised should be taken as a warning).
Make sure that "plate" or "plated" does not appear in the title or description of the auction. Legitimate sellers that got stuck with a counterfeit panda may state that it is "silver plated", for example, to cover themselves.
If the silver panda is dated 2001 or earlier, the reeded edge should be straight (the side of the coin should look like this: ||||||||||||); if the silver pand is dated 2002 or later, the reeded edge should be slanted (like this: \\\\\\\\\\\\). It is believed that all counterfeits have straight edges, so this is useful in identifying counterfeits from 2002 and later.
See if the item is covered by PayPal Buyer Protection. This is a good indication that the seller is legitimate, and will protect you if the item is counterfeit.
Make sure to pay with a credit card, either through PayPal or directly, or a known escrow service. Never send cash, check, money order, bank wire, or anything except a credit card or known escrow service (one you have heard of before; there are lots of fake escrow services out there). Using a credit card will help ensure that you can get your money back if you get a counterfeit coin.
The presence of a COA (Certiticate of Authenticity) is meaningless. Although real panda coins often include them, some of the counterfeit ones do as well (which may actually be a real COA from a panda with a lower value).
The above tips will help you avoid counterfeit pandas. However, you can't know a counterfeit until you receive it. So if you went through all the above steps, the next thing to do is weigh the coin once you receive it. To do this, you should have a scale that is accurate to 1/10 gram (if you don't have one, don't want to buy one, and have a good relationship with a local jeweler or coin store, you could ask them to weigh it). A scale accurate to 1g can be used for weighing 1oz coins, although 1/10 gram accuracy is better. A 1 ounce silver panda (one from 1989 to present) should weigh at least 31.1g (counterfeits made of copper weigh about 27-28g, and counterfeits with other metals have been seen weighing 21g), although there are reports of a .4g tolerance, which would allow them to weigh as little as 30.7g). Note that it is best to weigh in grams, as it avoids the confusion between troy and avoirdupois ounces (a 1 ounce silver panda weighs about 1.1 ounces on a standard scale weighing in avoirdupois ounces, since precious metals are sold in troy ounces). Note that you should not weigh the plastic that the coin is in. If you do not want to remove it from the plastic, you should take it to a coin dealer to determine if it is counterfeit (even then, many will not be able to make the determination, due to the quality of the counterfeits).
It is possible for a counterfeit silver coin to weigh exactly the same as a real silver coin, but it is not believed that there are any such counterfeit pandas at this time. A counterfeit gold coin, however, will always weigh less than it should (or be larger than it should).
1oz Silver Panda weights, finenesses, and diameters (note that there is discrepancy as to the actual weight and fineness of the 1987 panda)
1983: Proof only, 27g (24.3g of silver), .900 fine silver [no silver marking], 38.6mm
1984: Proof only, 27g (24.3g of silver), .900 fine silver [no silver marking], 38.6mm
1985: Proof only, 27g (24.3g of silver), .900 fine silver [no silver marking], 38.6mm
1986: No silver pandas minted
1987: Proof only, 31.1g or 33.6g, .925 or .999 fine silver [no silver marking], 40mm (possibly 38.6mm)
1988: No silver pandas minted
1989-Present: 31.1g .999 fine silver [marked ".999 1 Oz Ag"], 40mm
Hopefully, this guide will help you enjoy collecting Chinese pandas, without worrying too much about getting caught with counterfeit coins.
Guide ID: 10000000000935653Guide created: 05/12/06 (updated 08/15/06)
Grüsse,
gutso
Hallo Kollegen,
habe gestern einen super Link von ageka bekommen, der sich zwar auf gefälschte Silberpandas bezieht, aber, der sicher ein erster Hinweis auch für die Anlage in Palladium Pandas sein dürfte, dort etwas aufzupassen.
So eine Info darf, zumindest in den Threads, in denen es auch um Münzen geht, keinesfalls fehlen.
Aufgrund der niedrigen Auflagenzahlen (& der Sammlerpreise) lohnt sich das Fälschen offenbar, und offenbar ist es auch halbwegs technisch möglich, so komplizierte Produkte nachzuahmen.
Eigentlich wieder ein Argument für die Pd-Maples, denn zumindest momentan habe ich da noch nichts von Fälschungen gehört, so schnell wird es wohl auch wieder nicht möglich sein, welche auf den Markt zu werfen.
Andererseits ist der Palladium Markt wieder so klein, dass Fälschungen hier (noch) eher die Ausnahme sein dürften, ist jedenfalls meine Einschätzung.
Man sollte sich natürlich die Händler, denen man vertraut, vorher genau ansehen, aber auch die Angebote & die Münzen selber (soweit möglich). ...
Ansonsten gilt wahrscheinlich: am besten nie zu billig einkaufen wollen ... Wobei klar ist: Die teureren Angebote in Europa können genauso betroffen sein, wie die von Fernost, da die Händler wiederum die Münzen selber von dort her beziehen.
Hier nun der Link:
http://reviews.ebay.com/How-to…e=BUYGD:CAT:-1:LISTINGS:5
Und der Text (falls er irgendwann mal wieder aus dem Netz genommen werden sollte, im Original):
ZitatAlles anzeigenHow to spot a counterfeit silver panda
by: poconopenn( 1069)
90 out of 93 people found this guide helpful.
Guide viewed: 1316 times Tags: China silver panda | counterfeit | bullion | coins | fake
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the last few months, counterfeit 1 oz silver panda coins have flooded the US ebay, especially from the sellers located in China. During last few weeks, the counterfeit pandas also listed at ebay by a few US sellers. Most of those sellers may not even aware that they are helping to spread the counterfeit silver pandas in US. It becomes vital important to provide with some guidelines to spot the counterfeit China silver pandas.
Guidelines for coins and packages:
1. (Updated on 6/6/06, a quicker and easier way to spot a counterfeit pandas without pictures of the genuine coins) In order to prevent counterfeit, China Mints made few subtle changes in the obverse. The temple design was different for different dates. The circular rock fence on the both sides of stairway of temple have different number of posts for each row. For genuine coins, there are six posts in the bottom row for the period of 1983-1985, 5 posts for the period of 1987-1991, 4 posts for the period of 1992-2001, and 3 posts for the period of 2002-2006. All counterfeits, based on the pictures at ebay, have 3 or 4 posts in the first row. Starting 2002, drawings were added to the divider of the stairway in genuine coins, while the counterfeit coins had a smooth surface. In summary, those coins with 4 posts for years between 1983-1991 and 2002-2006 are counterfeit. Those coins with 3 posts for years between 1983-2001 are counterfeit. Those coins with 4 posts, between 1992-2001 may need further examination by comparing pictures with genuine coins as outlined in 3, 4, and 5. There are other design changes made by China Mints for different years, such as, the door to the temple and the number of the beams on top of the door. The counterfeit coins do not match those design changes.
2. The soft plastic pouch should be embossed with rope pattern on the sealed edges. Some, but not all, counterfeit coins have a flattened sealed surface and they are relatively easy to spot. There are different rope patterns for different China Mints. Shanghai Mint has a small and different rope styles vs. Shenyang Mint, while Shenzhen Guobao Mint has its name embossed on two sides of the pouch and the rope pattern is similar to the Shenyang Mint on the other two sides. Make sure the coin received is identical to the picture. There are counterfeit coins sealed in the embossed patterns similar to China Mints.
3. The position of the date on the obverse can be used to further identify the counterfeit coins. For genuine coins, at least two variations of date for BU coins between 1990 and 1999. Shanghai Mint usually has a small date and Shenyang Mint has a large date. The date of counterfeit coins usually is slightly off-position vs. genuine coins, using the stairway of the temple as guidepost.
4. In the majority of counterfeit coins, the 1 in 19xx and 2 in 200x are different from the genuine coins. The tapered tip of 1 in 19xx usually is longer for counterfeit coins vs. genuine for the years before 1990 with the exception of 1987. In 1987 coin, the 7 in 1987 is cured at top for genuine coin, while the counterfeit is straight 7.
5. For genuine coins during the period between 1992 to 1996, all 1 in 19xx are underlined (has a small baseline as part of 1). If you do not see the underlined 1, it is counterfeit. 4 in 1994 and 2004 are also have a underlined base for geniune coin, but not in the counterfeit coins. Unfortunately, if you are a new panda collector, you have no genuine coins to compare with. The websites of pandausa (including all varieties) and pandaamerican (better pictures, but no varieties) provide pictures of genuine coins of all dates. However, the ebay policy will not allow me to make direct link of these non-ebay sites in this guide.
6. Proof coins have a very low mintage, no more than 20,000 for each date, with the exceptions of 1987 and 1989. They do not have varieties for the same date, and therefore, it is relatively easy to spot the counterfeit by comparing the pictures.
7. Genuine 1983-1987 coins have characters on the plaque of the top floor of temple, while the counterfeit coins are blank. It should be noted that all counterfeit coins after 1987 have characters on the plaque, identical to the genuine coins.
8. Starting 2002, all silver pandas have a slanted reeding vs. a straight reeding for year prior to 2002.
9. The weight of double sealed 1 oz panda coin should be at least 38 gm for coin minted between 1987 and 1999, depending on the size and type of soft plastic pouch and hard plastic holder, with a exception of 1993. Weight of 1993 is slightly less then 38 gm due to the small size of hard plastic holder. Between 2000-2006, the harder plastic holder is thicker and, therefore, the weight is slightly higher, more than 39 gm. For 1983-1985, the coin itself should be 27 gm and usually not in the sealed plastic pouch. However, the counterfeit also weighs about 27 gm. Nevertheless, those counterfeit coins are relatively easy to spot. They have a longer tapered tip 1 in the dates. Some counterfeit coins actually weigh about 1 oz. Therefore, the weight of the package can not be used exclusively as the determine factor of the genuineness of the coin. However, if your double sealed coin is weighted less than the weight specified above, it is most likely a counterfeit.
General guidelines:
1. Fixed price is lower than the actual silver value and the S/H charge is extremely high.
2. Seller ID is kept in private and they usually have a low feedback number. The scammer can create feedback and good rating for themself by buying a few inexpensive items, usually non-coin items.
3. Item picture is vague and does not show both sides of the coin.
4. The counterfeit panda coins from China, sometimes, come with a COA issued by a private company. There are official COAs issued by Governor of the Bank of China for proof coins for each year with a statement of mintage and year, in Chinese and English. There is no official COA for BU pandas as suggested by those counterfeit coin sellers.
Hopefully this guide will help you to spot the counterfeit pandas before the bidding and save you the time and energy in trying to recover the loss from the sellers after the winning of a counterfeit panda. The observation made herein is based on the pictures of the counterfeit coins at ebay. There is a very good chance that new batch of counterfeit coins may be different from the current counterfeit. So, do the research carefully before bidding.
Final note, the mintage of pandas are very low vs. other bullion coins. The price is still very low and affordable. Because of their popularity among coin collectors, the pandas become the target of counterfeit, just like US silver trade dollars many years back. If you do the research carefully, you still can find the genuine coins at a very reasonable price. Good luck in your search for genuine pandas.
For disclosure purpose, I have no personal and financial connection to pandausa and pandaamerican mentioned above. I bought few China coins (not panda) from these companies more than 10 years ago.
Guide ID: 10000000000966183Guide created: 05/21/06 (updated 08/15/06)
Grüsse,
gutso
PPS: Und hier noch der Link zum (echten) Emmitenten, der Bank of China.
Hallo Kollegen,
habe gestern einen super Link von ageka bekommen, der sich zwar auf gefälschte Silberpandas bezieht, aber, der sicher ein erster Hinweis auch für die Anlage in Palladium Pandas sein dürfte, dort etwas aufzupassen.
So eine Info darf, zumindest in den Threads, in denen es auch um Münzen geht, keinesfalls fehlen.
Aufgrund der niedrigen Auflagenzahlen (& der Sammlerpreise) lohnt sich das Fälschen offenbar, und offenbar ist es auch halbwegs technisch möglich, so komplizierte Produkte nachzuahmen.
Eigentlich wieder ein Argument für die Pd-Maples, denn zumindest momentan habe ich da noch nichts von Fälschungen gehört, so schnell wird es wohl auch wieder nicht möglich sein, welche auf den Markt zu werfen.
Andererseits ist der Palladium Markt wieder so klein, dass Fälschungen hier (noch) eher die Ausnahme sein dürften, ist jedenfalls meine Einschätzung.
Man sollte sich natürlich die Händler, denen man vertraut, vorher genau ansehen, aber auch die Angebote & die Münzen selber (soweit möglich). ...
Ansonsten gilt wahrscheinlich: am besten nie zu billig einkaufen wollen ... Wobei klar ist: Die teureren Angebote in Europa können genauso betroffen sein, wie die von Fernost, da die Händler wiederum die Münzen selber von dort her beziehen.
Hier nun der Link:
http://reviews.ebay.com/How-to…e=BUYGD:CAT:-1:LISTINGS:5
Und der Text (falls er irgendwann mal wieder aus dem Netz genommen werden sollte, im Original):
ZitatAlles anzeigenHow to spot a counterfeit silver panda
by: poconopenn( 1069)
90 out of 93 people found this guide helpful.
Guide viewed: 1316 times Tags: China silver panda | counterfeit | bullion | coins | fake
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the last few months, counterfeit 1 oz silver panda coins have flooded the US ebay, especially from the sellers located in China. During last few weeks, the counterfeit pandas also listed at ebay by a few US sellers. Most of those sellers may not even aware that they are helping to spread the counterfeit silver pandas in US. It becomes vital important to provide with some guidelines to spot the counterfeit China silver pandas.
Guidelines for coins and packages:
1. (Updated on 6/6/06, a quicker and easier way to spot a counterfeit pandas without pictures of the genuine coins) In order to prevent counterfeit, China Mints made few subtle changes in the obverse. The temple design was different for different dates. The circular rock fence on the both sides of stairway of temple have different number of posts for each row. For genuine coins, there are six posts in the bottom row for the period of 1983-1985, 5 posts for the period of 1987-1991, 4 posts for the period of 1992-2001, and 3 posts for the period of 2002-2006. All counterfeits, based on the pictures at ebay, have 3 or 4 posts in the first row. Starting 2002, drawings were added to the divider of the stairway in genuine coins, while the counterfeit coins had a smooth surface. In summary, those coins with 4 posts for years between 1983-1991 and 2002-2006 are counterfeit. Those coins with 3 posts for years between 1983-2001 are counterfeit. Those coins with 4 posts, between 1992-2001 may need further examination by comparing pictures with genuine coins as outlined in 3, 4, and 5. There are other design changes made by China Mints for different years, such as, the door to the temple and the number of the beams on top of the door. The counterfeit coins do not match those design changes.
2. The soft plastic pouch should be embossed with rope pattern on the sealed edges. Some, but not all, counterfeit coins have a flattened sealed surface and they are relatively easy to spot. There are different rope patterns for different China Mints. Shanghai Mint has a small and different rope styles vs. Shenyang Mint, while Shenzhen Guobao Mint has its name embossed on two sides of the pouch and the rope pattern is similar to the Shenyang Mint on the other two sides. Make sure the coin received is identical to the picture. There are counterfeit coins sealed in the embossed patterns similar to China Mints.
3. The position of the date on the obverse can be used to further identify the counterfeit coins. For genuine coins, at least two variations of date for BU coins between 1990 and 1999. Shanghai Mint usually has a small date and Shenyang Mint has a large date. The date of counterfeit coins usually is slightly off-position vs. genuine coins, using the stairway of the temple as guidepost.
4. In the majority of counterfeit coins, the 1 in 19xx and 2 in 200x are different from the genuine coins. The tapered tip of 1 in 19xx usually is longer for counterfeit coins vs. genuine for the years before 1990 with the exception of 1987. In 1987 coin, the 7 in 1987 is cured at top for genuine coin, while the counterfeit is straight 7.
5. For genuine coins during the period between 1992 to 1996, all 1 in 19xx are underlined (has a small baseline as part of 1). If you do not see the underlined 1, it is counterfeit. 4 in 1994 and 2004 are also have a underlined base for geniune coin, but not in the counterfeit coins. Unfortunately, if you are a new panda collector, you have no genuine coins to compare with. The websites of pandausa (including all varieties) and pandaamerican (better pictures, but no varieties) provide pictures of genuine coins of all dates. However, the ebay policy will not allow me to make direct link of these non-ebay sites in this guide.
6. Proof coins have a very low mintage, no more than 20,000 for each date, with the exceptions of 1987 and 1989. They do not have varieties for the same date, and therefore, it is relatively easy to spot the counterfeit by comparing the pictures.
7. Genuine 1983-1987 coins have characters on the plaque of the top floor of temple, while the counterfeit coins are blank. It should be noted that all counterfeit coins after 1987 have characters on the plaque, identical to the genuine coins.
8. Starting 2002, all silver pandas have a slanted reeding vs. a straight reeding for year prior to 2002.
9. The weight of double sealed 1 oz panda coin should be at least 38 gm for coin minted between 1987 and 1999, depending on the size and type of soft plastic pouch and hard plastic holder, with a exception of 1993. Weight of 1993 is slightly less then 38 gm due to the small size of hard plastic holder. Between 2000-2006, the harder plastic holder is thicker and, therefore, the weight is slightly higher, more than 39 gm. For 1983-1985, the coin itself should be 27 gm and usually not in the sealed plastic pouch. However, the counterfeit also weighs about 27 gm. Nevertheless, those counterfeit coins are relatively easy to spot. They have a longer tapered tip 1 in the dates. Some counterfeit coins actually weigh about 1 oz. Therefore, the weight of the package can not be used exclusively as the determine factor of the genuineness of the coin. However, if your double sealed coin is weighted less than the weight specified above, it is most likely a counterfeit.
General guidelines:
1. Fixed price is lower than the actual silver value and the S/H charge is extremely high.
2. Seller ID is kept in private and they usually have a low feedback number. The scammer can create feedback and good rating for themself by buying a few inexpensive items, usually non-coin items.
3. Item picture is vague and does not show both sides of the coin.
4. The counterfeit panda coins from China, sometimes, come with a COA issued by a private company. There are official COAs issued by Governor of the Bank of China for proof coins for each year with a statement of mintage and year, in Chinese and English. There is no official COA for BU pandas as suggested by those counterfeit coin sellers.
Hopefully this guide will help you to spot the counterfeit pandas before the bidding and save you the time and energy in trying to recover the loss from the sellers after the winning of a counterfeit panda. The observation made herein is based on the pictures of the counterfeit coins at ebay. There is a very good chance that new batch of counterfeit coins may be different from the current counterfeit. So, do the research carefully before bidding.
Final note, the mintage of pandas are very low vs. other bullion coins. The price is still very low and affordable. Because of their popularity among coin collectors, the pandas become the target of counterfeit, just like US silver trade dollars many years back. If you do the research carefully, you still can find the genuine coins at a very reasonable price. Good luck in your search for genuine pandas.
For disclosure purpose, I have no personal and financial connection to pandausa and pandaamerican mentioned above. I bought few China coins (not panda) from these companies more than 10 years ago.
Guide ID: 10000000000966183Guide created: 05/21/06 (updated 08/15/06)
Grüsse,
gutso
PPS: Und hier noch der Link zum (echten) Emmitenten, der Bank of China.
Hallo Kollegen,
und dann noch etwas Anderes. Ich habe gestern einen super Link von ageka bekommen, der sich zwar auf gefälschte Silberpandas bezieht, aber, der sicher ein erster Hinweis auch für die Anlage in Palladium Pandas sein dürfte, dort etwas aufzupassen.
So eine Info darf, zumindest in den Threads, in denen es auch um Münzen geht, keinesfalls fehlen.
Aufgrund der niedrigen Auflagenzahlen (& der Sammlerpreise) lohnt sich das Fälschen offenbar, und offenbar ist es auch halbwegs technisch möglich, so komplizierte Produkte nachzuahmen.
Eigentlich wieder ein Argument für die Pd-Maples, denn zumindest momentan habe ich da noch nichts von Fälschungen gehört, so schnell wird es wohl auch wieder nicht möglich sein, welche auf den Markt zu werfen.
Andererseits ist der Palladium Markt wieder so klein, dass Fälschungen hier (noch) eher die Ausnahme sein dürften, ist jedenfalls meine Einschätzung.
Man sollte sich natürlich die Händler, denen man vertraut, vorher genau ansehen, aber auch die Angebote & die Münzen selber (soweit möglich). ...
Ansonsten gilt wahrscheinlich: am besten nie zu billig einkaufen wollen ... Wobei klar ist: Die teureren Angebote in Europa können genauso betroffen sein, wie die von Fernost, da die Händler wiederum die Münzen selber von dort her beziehen.
Hier nun der Link:
http://reviews.ebay.com/How-to…e=BUYGD:CAT:-1:LISTINGS:5
Und der Text (falls er irgendwann mal wieder aus dem Netz genommen werden sollte, im Original):
ZitatAlles anzeigenHow to spot a counterfeit silver panda
by: poconopenn( 1069)
90 out of 93 people found this guide helpful.
Guide viewed: 1316 times Tags: China silver panda | counterfeit | bullion | coins | fake
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the last few months, counterfeit 1 oz silver panda coins have flooded the US ebay, especially from the sellers located in China. During last few weeks, the counterfeit pandas also listed at ebay by a few US sellers. Most of those sellers may not even aware that they are helping to spread the counterfeit silver pandas in US. It becomes vital important to provide with some guidelines to spot the counterfeit China silver pandas.
Guidelines for coins and packages:
1. (Updated on 6/6/06, a quicker and easier way to spot a counterfeit pandas without pictures of the genuine coins) In order to prevent counterfeit, China Mints made few subtle changes in the obverse. The temple design was different for different dates. The circular rock fence on the both sides of stairway of temple have different number of posts for each row. For genuine coins, there are six posts in the bottom row for the period of 1983-1985, 5 posts for the period of 1987-1991, 4 posts for the period of 1992-2001, and 3 posts for the period of 2002-2006. All counterfeits, based on the pictures at ebay, have 3 or 4 posts in the first row. Starting 2002, drawings were added to the divider of the stairway in genuine coins, while the counterfeit coins had a smooth surface. In summary, those coins with 4 posts for years between 1983-1991 and 2002-2006 are counterfeit. Those coins with 3 posts for years between 1983-2001 are counterfeit. Those coins with 4 posts, between 1992-2001 may need further examination by comparing pictures with genuine coins as outlined in 3, 4, and 5. There are other design changes made by China Mints for different years, such as, the door to the temple and the number of the beams on top of the door. The counterfeit coins do not match those design changes.
2. The soft plastic pouch should be embossed with rope pattern on the sealed edges. Some, but not all, counterfeit coins have a flattened sealed surface and they are relatively easy to spot. There are different rope patterns for different China Mints. Shanghai Mint has a small and different rope styles vs. Shenyang Mint, while Shenzhen Guobao Mint has its name embossed on two sides of the pouch and the rope pattern is similar to the Shenyang Mint on the other two sides. Make sure the coin received is identical to the picture. There are counterfeit coins sealed in the embossed patterns similar to China Mints.
3. The position of the date on the obverse can be used to further identify the counterfeit coins. For genuine coins, at least two variations of date for BU coins between 1990 and 1999. Shanghai Mint usually has a small date and Shenyang Mint has a large date. The date of counterfeit coins usually is slightly off-position vs. genuine coins, using the stairway of the temple as guidepost.
4. In the majority of counterfeit coins, the 1 in 19xx and 2 in 200x are different from the genuine coins. The tapered tip of 1 in 19xx usually is longer for counterfeit coins vs. genuine for the years before 1990 with the exception of 1987. In 1987 coin, the 7 in 1987 is cured at top for genuine coin, while the counterfeit is straight 7.
5. For genuine coins during the period between 1992 to 1996, all 1 in 19xx are underlined (has a small baseline as part of 1). If you do not see the underlined 1, it is counterfeit. 4 in 1994 and 2004 are also have a underlined base for geniune coin, but not in the counterfeit coins. Unfortunately, if you are a new panda collector, you have no genuine coins to compare with. The websites of pandausa (including all varieties) and pandaamerican (better pictures, but no varieties) provide pictures of genuine coins of all dates. However, the ebay policy will not allow me to make direct link of these non-ebay sites in this guide.
6. Proof coins have a very low mintage, no more than 20,000 for each date, with the exceptions of 1987 and 1989. They do not have varieties for the same date, and therefore, it is relatively easy to spot the counterfeit by comparing the pictures.
7. Genuine 1983-1987 coins have characters on the plaque of the top floor of temple, while the counterfeit coins are blank. It should be noted that all counterfeit coins after 1987 have characters on the plaque, identical to the genuine coins.
8. Starting 2002, all silver pandas have a slanted reeding vs. a straight reeding for year prior to 2002.
9. The weight of double sealed 1 oz panda coin should be at least 38 gm for coin minted between 1987 and 1999, depending on the size and type of soft plastic pouch and hard plastic holder, with a exception of 1993. Weight of 1993 is slightly less then 38 gm due to the small size of hard plastic holder. Between 2000-2006, the harder plastic holder is thicker and, therefore, the weight is slightly higher, more than 39 gm. For 1983-1985, the coin itself should be 27 gm and usually not in the sealed plastic pouch. However, the counterfeit also weighs about 27 gm. Nevertheless, those counterfeit coins are relatively easy to spot. They have a longer tapered tip 1 in the dates. Some counterfeit coins actually weigh about 1 oz. Therefore, the weight of the package can not be used exclusively as the determine factor of the genuineness of the coin. However, if your double sealed coin is weighted less than the weight specified above, it is most likely a counterfeit.
General guidelines:
1. Fixed price is lower than the actual silver value and the S/H charge is extremely high.
2. Seller ID is kept in private and they usually have a low feedback number. The scammer can create feedback and good rating for themself by buying a few inexpensive items, usually non-coin items.
3. Item picture is vague and does not show both sides of the coin.
4. The counterfeit panda coins from China, sometimes, come with a COA issued by a private company. There are official COAs issued by Governor of the Bank of China for proof coins for each year with a statement of mintage and year, in Chinese and English. There is no official COA for BU pandas as suggested by those counterfeit coin sellers.
Hopefully this guide will help you to spot the counterfeit pandas before the bidding and save you the time and energy in trying to recover the loss from the sellers after the winning of a counterfeit panda. The observation made herein is based on the pictures of the counterfeit coins at ebay. There is a very good chance that new batch of counterfeit coins may be different from the current counterfeit. So, do the research carefully before bidding.
Final note, the mintage of pandas are very low vs. other bullion coins. The price is still very low and affordable. Because of their popularity among coin collectors, the pandas become the target of counterfeit, just like US silver trade dollars many years back. If you do the research carefully, you still can find the genuine coins at a very reasonable price. Good luck in your search for genuine pandas.
For disclosure purpose, I have no personal and financial connection to pandausa and pandaamerican mentioned above. I bought few China coins (not panda) from these companies more than 10 years ago.
Guide ID: 10000000000966183Guide created: 05/21/06 (updated 08/15/06)
Grüsse,
gutso
PPS: Und hier noch der Link zum (echten) Emmitenten, der Bank of China.
Hallo,
damit man auch hier erst mal etwas mehr "Verlinkung" an Ort & Stelle hat: es gibt im Forum mehrere, teils sehr alte, aber immer noch sehr lesenswerte und hilfreiche Threads zu Palladium:
Habe sie dem Inhalt & Typ nach etwas beschrieben.
Palladium als generelles Anlagemetall (Zertifikate, Aktien, Barren, Münzen) und Preis-Charts zu Palladium
http://www.goldseitenforum.de/…hreadid=139&goto=lastpost
Palladium als physische Anlage und als Münzmetall
http://www.goldseitenforum.de/…readid=1240&goto=lastpost
Palladium als physische Anlage und als Münzmetall
http://www.goldseitenforum.de/…readid=2114&goto=lastpost
Palladium als physische Anlage und als Münzmetall
http://www.goldseitenforum.de/…readid=2436&goto=lastpost
Palladium als physische Anlage und als Münzmetall
http://www.goldseitenforum.de/…readid=2747&goto=lastpost
Grüsse,
gutso
Hallo,
uff ... .
Habs mir ncohmal angesehen, der Händler bei dem ich gekauft habe, wird auch von vielen Münzhändlern seinerseits frequentiert.
So schnell schrammt man selber daran vorbei, der "Lacher des Tages zu werden".
Sieht aber ok aus, den Rest checke ich, wenn ich die Ware da habe ... .
Danke nochmal & eine gute Nacht allerseits.
Grüsse,
gutso
Vielen Dank ageka!
Das ist mal ein erster Hinweis, schade, dass das Fälschen bei so komplexen Produkten doch einigermassen möglich ist. ...
Ich nehme mal an, dass der Chinesische Händler, den ich selber ausprobiert habe (Ware unterwegs), mir keine Fakes verkauft, aber ich werde das schon rausfinden.
Also war es zumindest richtig von mir, darauf zu achten, dass er offen auftritt, mit Emailadresse, Shop usw.
Er hätte etwas zu verlieren.
Grüsse,
gutso
PPS: allerdings ist man dann auch bei europäischen Händlern davor nicht sicher. Denn wo haben die ihre Ware wiederum her .. . Weiss mans? ...
PPPS: Sind das im Link rechts Beispiele gefälschter Pandas? Oder sind das nur normale Angebote
Würdet Ihr denn vor einem Wiederverkauf die Barren von ihrer Patina befreien, bei so einem Händler?
Weiss da jemand etwas über die "Präferenzen"?
Ich meine es steht nicht an bei mir,- und wenn es mal so weit ist, dann würde man sie wahrscheinlich auch nehmen, wenn ich die Barren ungereinigt abgebe, dennoch würde mich das noch interessieren, prinzipell.
Grüsse,
gutso
ZitatOriginal von 0711
(...)
Schade eigentlich, ich dachte ich hätte ein neues Teil-Sammelgebiet gefunden. Aber wenn das so dermaßen verseucht ist mit Fälschungen, dann ist finde ich es uninteressant, bzw. zu riskant.
(...)
Hallo Ihr,
das ist ja wirklich der Hammer. Bin gespannt, was Ihr dazu meint, - ob das bei den Palladium China Pandas auch möglich ist, weiss da einer von Euch was?
Gewicht & Grösse sind das Eine, aber auch das Aussehen ist doch nicht ganz easy nachzumachen ... .
Oder anders: Ist es nicht viel zu aufwändig so feine Produkte zu kopieren? ...
Das hatte ich jedenfalls gehofft, denn da dürften die Maples ja noch einfacher zu kopieren sein. ...
Würde man es den Liberty Münzen ansehen, wenn man sie neben echte legt, oder wenn das Foto erkennbar besser wäre?
Grüsse,
gutso
ZitatDie Frage ist, ob Amerika in der Finanzwelt suizidgefährdet ist
Ja, & die sich daran anschliessende Frage ist, wie das Mittel der Wahl aussehen wird: Tod & Wiedergeburt liegen - in Finanzdingen evtl. noch viel eher als in esoterischer Hinsicht - recht eng beisammen ... .
Würde sagen, wer die Frage treffsicher vorher beantwortet, kriegt das Krönchen. ...
Hallo Ihr,
während die Inflation tot gesagt wird, lebt die bereits im März 2006 ermordete M3 umso vitaler vor sich hin ...
Die Daten um M3 gehen bis 1959 zurück und sie lassen sich annähernd trotz der Einstellung der Publikation von M3 weiterhin berechnen:
Müllers Links zu nowandfuture.com (waren im Forum schon ein paar Tage länger bekannt, glaube linar hat sie geposted) von vor ein paar Tagen zu "M3 is back" haben da drauf hingewiesen, dass man M3 fast zu 100% aus den Komponenten erstellen kann:
[Blockierte Grafik: http://www.nowandfutures.com/images/m3b_long_term.png]
Und wenn man das so sieht, muss man sagen: Man braucht keine öffentlich verkündete Inflation, wenn man eine real explodierende Geldmengenexpansion hat (=> exponentiell, "Anstieg des Anstiegs" ...).
Wie das alles enden wird, weiss ich auch nicht, aber es wird wohl nicht gut enden (können), ohne Metalle im Haushalt, - sagt mir mein Alltagsverstand. ...
Ebenso hat Hamilton (ZEAL) das Thema im August 2003 schon gesehen:
Ein super gemachter Artikel über die Frage "Deflation oder Inflation?". ...
Grüsse,
gutso
ZitatOriginal von danineu
(...)
Kommt es nun mehr auf die Schönheit an, auf Sammlereditionen .......
Wiederverkauswert, Bekanntheitswert......
Wollte so mit einer 1oz anfangen
Wahre Schönheit kommt von Innen! Also ist der innere Wert wichtiger!
Nein, im Ernst: das muss man irgendwie selber entscheiden.
Ich glaube mittlerweilen, obwohl ich dem vorher eher abgeneigt war, mit Sammlermünzen kann man auch gutes Geld machen. ...
Aber wenn man nicht ohnehin schon der Sammlertyp ist, würde ich dennoch die "Medium-Variante" wählen, anstatt von vornherein Extreme.
Vielleicht wirst Du ja Sammlerin.
Aber offenbar bist Du es nicht wirklich, oder?
Für mich gilt, dass beim Gold folgende Münzen gehen: Krügerrand, Maples, China-Pandas & ein paar schöne, australische Goldmünzen (Lunare peile ich an). Nur zur Info: ich habe aber bisher keine Goldmünzen (bis auf ein paar Schweizer & Österreicher).
Bei Palladium (da hab ich bereits etwas), würde ich die neuen Maple Leaf nehmen, solange der Preis noch vernünftig ist (momentan also um 330 Euro, möglichst nicht mehr), ebenso die Pd-Pandas von 04 & 05, die auch "Ich" mir empfohlen hat, weil sie vom Preis her auch gerade noch gehen & Sammlercharakter mitbringen, bei 8000 Stück Auflage je Jahrgang.
Bei den Pandas sind die Preisunterschiede auf dem Markt aber riesig & es lohnt sich daher noch mehr, genauer zu suchen & die Angebote zu vergleichen.
Ansonsten habe ich auch ein paar Pamp Suisse Pd Unzen & die finde ich auch nicht verkehrt.
So mach ichs nun jedenfalls.
Weil ich kein wirklicher Sammler bin, aber mir schöne Münzen natürlich auch gefallen, klar, sind für mich momentan die Pandas schon die äussere Grenze.
Ansonsten hab ich Physisch Silber in Form von Kookaburra 1kg Münzen & Silber-Barren. Auch was Schönes übrigens.
Grüsse,
gutso
Habe grade nochmal geschaut.
Da habe ich agekas Beispiel nochmal woanders gefunden, die NGC MS69 Buffalos, neben den NGC MS70 Buffalos.
American Buffalo Certified NGC MS69
2006 One Ounce 24 Karat Gold... $859.00, 3 / $2,529.00
Perfect MS-70 American Buffalo Coins
NGC Certified "First Strikes"... $960.00, 3 / $2,835.00
Die 900 Euro bei Ebay sind also der Grössenordnung nach etwa im Rahmen dessen, was man erwarten kann, in Europa. Zwar 30% teuerer, als das Beispiel hier, aber naja. Ist halt Ebay Europa. ...
Grüsse,
gutso
ZitatOriginal von 0711
gutso,
das von Dir angenomme Tempo kann nicht stimmen.
(...)
Hallo 0711,
bin ja froh, wenn ich dazu mal was höre. Es ist zwar abseits dieses Threads, aber ich lerne gern dazu.
War übrigens bloss eine spontane Beispielrechnung, ob sie denn so stimmen kann, weiss ich selber gar nicht.
Habe mir einfach mal interessehalber die Zahlen berechnet, die nötig wären, eine so hohe Auflage überhaupt in 30 Tagen zu prägen.
Aber einige 10.000 sind wohl dennoch plausibel und wahrscheinlich auch möglich, oder ... ?
Jedem ist natürlich belassen, dafür mehr Geld hinzulegen, manche mögen sowas.
(Also, ich würde es nicht machen, weil ichs etwas albern finde.)
Grüsse,
gutso
PPS: Der Buffalo ist eine schöne Münze. So zerknittert, wie der Indianer darauf aussieht, genügt aber auch ein second strike, oder?
Danke für den Link, ich lese es mir grade mal durch.
