Sorry, Peter, ich habe mich nicht richtig ausgedrückt.
Es geht mir um Pandas aus den o.g. Jahren. Bei Gold.de finde ich meines Wissens nur Handleran- und -verkaufspreise.
Ich dachte, es gäbe vielleicht eine Art Liste mit Auktionsergebnisses, Ebaypreisen u.ä., um auf den Marktwert zu schließen.
Vielleicht hilft auch Deine/Eure persönliche Einschätzung zu den halben und ganzen Unzen.
Es geht mir um Pandas aus den o.g. Jahren ...
...Liste mit Auktionsergebnisses, Ebaypreisen u.ä....
Bei Pandas aus den von dir genannten Jahrgängen wird es wahrscheinlich nicht so viele Verkäufe von 1/2 und ganzen Unzen geben.
Dementsprechend schwierig wird es sein, Einschätzungen zu aktuell gehandelten Preisen dieser Münzen zu finden. Je nach Jahrgang kann der Preis ganz schön variieren.
Bei ebay hast Du die Möglichkeit durch die Eingabe einer entsprechenden Suche und der Eingrenzung mit einem Haken bei "Verkaufte Artikel" etwas zu finden (im nachfolgenden Link für das Beispiel Panda Gold 1995)
Über die Seite MA-Shops gibt es auch die Möglichkeit die Suche nach bestimmten Münzen einzugrenzen. Auch hier ein Beispiel über den nachfolgenden Link (Pandas der Jahrgänge 1994 bis 1997; allerdings lässt sich das Gewicht nicht weiter eingrenzen).
Angebote bei Münzauktion (MA-Shops)
Vielleicht kann man anhand dessen zumindest ein Gefühl für den Wert Deiner Münzen bekommen.
händler ankaufspreis september 17
Vielen Dank, Euch beiden.
Hier im Forum wären dann ein paar Prozent über Händlerankaufspreisen ein realistischer Angebotspreis?
Hallo
Fang mit ein paar % höher an und arbeite dich langsam runter
Gruß
Koc
Letzte Frage noch:
Komme etwas durcheinander; in undines Liste ist der Ankaufspreis für die halbe Unze 1995 bei 13,5k, der höchste auf Gold.de gelistete Preis ist 5,5k.
Liegt jetzt der Marktpreis in der Mitte?
Letzte Frage noch:
Komme etwas durcheinander; in undines Liste ist der Ankaufspreis für die halbe Unze 1995 bei 13,5k, der höchste auf Gold.de gelistete Preis ist 5,5k.
Liegt jetzt der Marktpreis in der Mitte?
der MarktPreis ist der Preis welcher der Käufer bereit ist für seine Geilheit auf die Münze über Materialpreis
zu zahlen , ich habe gerade ein PreisVorSchlag für die 500 Yuan 1990 gemacht mit dem Pferd 5oz. Gold ,
wobei mir der Acount etwas komisch vorkommt , weil der verschieden länder als StandOrt drin hat ,
naja gut mit PayPal ist man ja realtiv sicher , so hatte ich es mal erlebt , mir kam das Pferd auch etwas billig
vor irgendwie "HolzAugeSeiWachMann" 
Gruss
alibaba
Letzte Frage noch:
Komme etwas durcheinander; in undines Liste ist der Ankaufspreis für die halbe Unze 1995 bei 13,5k, der höchste auf Gold.de gelistete Preis ist 5,5k.
Liegt jetzt der Marktpreis in der Mitte?
Händlerankaufpreise für seltene Münzen liegen bei Gold.de oft mal erheblich unter dem auf dem freien Markt realisierbarem Preis. Diese Preise kann man also nicht immer als Maßstab heranziehen.
Bei solch seltenen Stücken im Hochpreisbereich, die zudem noch so große Preisunterschiede aufweisen (wie in der angegebenen Liste und dem Ankaufpreis bei Gold.de), wäre es evtl. sinnvoll die Münze einem Anbieter für Münzauktionen zur Begutachtung vorzulegen.
Evtl. ist dann auch eine Auktion eine sinnvolle Option für einen Verkauf. Es soll ja durchaus vorkommen, dass ein Zuschlag höher ausfällt als der Schätzpreis.
Wichtig bei solch seltenen Münzen ist es ja, diese dem richtigen Interessenten-/Käuferkreis bekannt zu machen.
Du kannst natürlich auch zu Horst Lichter "Bares für Rares" gehen. [Blockierte Grafik: http://www.goldseiten-forum.com/wcf/images/smilies/biggrin.png]
Da ist der Prügel dann aber auch mit Achzich Euro jut bezahlt. 
überraschung beim auspacken.
kapsel gebrochen u. der panda fliegt durch die gegend. 
aussenrum zwar gut gepolstert, aber in die box hat er nix beigelegt 
oder zumindest die kapsel in frischhalte folie eingewickelt .. das kostet auch nicht all zu viel. 
kapsel gebrochen u. der panda fliegt durch die gegend
Das ist wirklich ärgerlich 
Bei derart hochpreisigen Münzen kaum nachvollziehbar, diese bei einem Versand nicht besser vor Beschädigung zu schützen.
ob die Münze jetzt noch die 155.5 Gramm schafft 
mit der chinesischen Waage, vermutlich
nagut das es Kapseln gibt , mehr als wie Münzen
bei mir legen die Pfiffigen immer etwas ZellStoff gefalten zwischen Kapsel und Kiste , meist zart
origanisch gefaltet bei 5UnzenDinger ist schon schön mal zu halten .... HalteDauer ![[smilie_happy]](https://goldseiten-forum.com/wcf/images/smilies/smilie_happy_058.gif "smilie_happy"){kind=small}
Gruss
alibaba
Wenn die Münze selbst nichts abbekommen hat ist es zwar sehr ärgerlich (und in der Preisklasse absolut unnötig, da kann man sich doch wirklich etwas Mühe geben) aber letztendlich zu diesem Preis verschmerzbar
Glückwünsch auf jeden Fall zum Kauf 
![[smilie_blume]](https://goldseiten-forum.com/wcf/images/smilies/smilie_blume1.gif "smilie_blume"){kind=small}
ab zum ngc zertifizierungsservice damit wird eine wertsteigerung erzielt und die muenze geschuetzt.
mfgpeter1
Dein übersetzungslink geht bei mir nicht, der hier schon:
Chinese Panda Coins / supply and demand of gold panda coins
Some basic information:
The gold proof panda program started in 1986 and ended in 1996. The key ones are 1992 set (mintage 806), 1994 set (mintage 854) and the single one oz with different design 1995 (mintage 555) and 1996. (mintage based on Mr. Ge’s information)
BU panda program started in 1982 and it is ongoing. The basic mintage information can reference the data published by china mint in 2007. Some key ones in each size:
1/20 oz: 1983,1998,2000
1/10 oz: 1998,2002,2006
¼ oz: 1995,1998,1999
½ oz: 1994,1995,1996,1998
1 oz: 1982,1994,1995,1996,1998
One difference is that BU panda program is continuing and proof panda program stopped. In China, still most the people even don’t know the exist of gold panda coins, so you can guess how many people can tell the difference between a proof panda and a BU panda. If new buyers bought some 2020 BU panda coins, some of them might be interested in the previous ones, like the 2019, 2018, etc. and then maybe the earlier ones if they are really interested. Proof buyers normally require more knowledge on panda coins.
Sometimes I compare the proof pandas with 12 oz gold pandas, similar situation. Is 12 oz gold panda rare? Yes. The 84, the 91 to 95, specially the 94. Are there a lot buyers? Maybe not. Regular buyers buy regular BU pandas, advanced buyers might choose 5 oz gold, some super rich buyers might choose kilo gold pandas which are all ongoing programs. Only few high end collectors would buy the 12 oz gold panda sets.
So go back to proof pandas, entry level buyers more like to buy BU pandas, high end collectors might prefer to buy culture related coins, the demand for proof pandas maybe not that strong.
The coins bring us to this topic are the 94 ½ and 94 proof ½ oz. If I have to choose one for my long term collection, I’m 100% sure will choose the NGC69 proof panda. But If for short term investment, I may choose the NGC69 BU panda. Is 94 proof ½ a better coin for collection, I think so. But if you check the current market price, my dealer friends are buying BU NGC69 at $6000-6500 range, and paying $4500-5000 for proof NGC69.
Another good example is 95 ½ and 95 proof. 95 ½ is the No.1 BU panda coin needed for the master set right now and 95 proof in my opinion is the best small panda coin—beautiful design with 555 mintage. For collection, 95 proof is way way better. But check the current market price. My dealer friends are paying $15000-$16000 for the 95 ½ NGC69. You want to sell a 95 proof NGC69 at same price? Not a chance, maybe around half of that.
Why? Because the demand is different. BU panda coins got promoted by the master set sales, no such kind of program for proof pandas. For the past 10 years also, master set program is the key to push up the gold BU panda prices, without this program, the BU pandas maybe still highly gold content related.
Will it be possible a proof gold panda program in the future? I highly doubt it. I and Robert Mish, spent long time to persuade some of the dealer friends to assemble proof sets, none wants to do that. To start a program, you have expense. You need to do advertisement and set up your distribution channel. Also, you need to have your products ready to sell. Even if you want to sell proof master sets, can you find enough 92 set, 94 set? 95, 96 1 oz? Absolutely not. You are not selling one master set or two master sets—it’s not a program. You want to sell at least 50-100 master sets for a longer period. The only thing I can think about is that partial sets could be possible—like from 86-90, a five-year sets program.
You may also say that use the proofs for the BU master sets. Till now, I don’t hear from any of my dealer friends or gift companies using proofs to replace BU ones. I have asked them many times during the past years and the answer was always no. Will it happen in the future? Who knows. But it’s possible. I think if they really can’t find the BU coins in the future or the price difference between the BU and proofs are two big, say more than double, they might use the proofs. But even that happens, it won’t apply to all the proofs, it will only happen to the very few key ones like the 94 ½ and the 90 ½.
There are not so many collectors for the proofs. You may disagree. Let me give you another example so you may understand easily. The BU panda rare version. I think as a panda coin buyer, maybe it will be easy for you to buy a different version of the BU panda than to buy a proof set. We know most pandas have more than one version because they were made at different mint companies. We know 98 LD is a better version and we know 00 mirror one is a better version. If my memory is right, the 98 ½ LD NGC69 coins were sold around $15k while at the same time the SD NGC69 coins were sold around $5000 to 6000. The 00 ½ mirror NGC69 were sold around $8000 while the frosted ones were sold around $2000 maybe? Look at the current price, there is almost no premium between the two versions. Why? The 98 LD and 00 mirror are definitely among the best versions of BU panda coins, with its tiny mintage, there is still not enough collector’s buying power to support the price. For those dealers who assemble the master set, rare version means nothing to them. At the beginning, once they got rare version, they exchanged it with a common version plus some cash. But now with no premium, they just use whatever they get. The common version ones were used up and hard to find now, but the rare version ones can’t find the collector’s support and have to go to the master sets as well.
Now move to BU panda coins. BU pandas normally has more mintage compare with the proof ones. But master set program used a lot of BU coins. For the proof pandas, collectors are the major buyers. If they don’t want to keep it, they sell it back to the market. So it’s always in the collectors circle, not so many leave the market. But for master sets, they were sold to buyers outside of the collectors circle, they left the market, they disappeared and they are gone for a long time. So even with a bigger mintage, the demand is strong and always need new coins to supply.
So can you just accumulate some key coins and hike the price? I think so, as long as the demand is still there. Are there risks? Of course yes. The program can be terminated by any reason, temperately or permanently. Without these programs, the BU panda prices will drop. The BU panda prices are highly related to the master sets sales. Also, the key coins sometime varied. My dealer friends who assemble master sets used to tell me” if you can find this coin for me, I will be able to assemble a whole master set”. These kind of “the only coin needed” include 94 ½, 95 ¼, 95 ½, 97 ½, 98 ½, 02 1/10, 03 ½, at different time period. The surprise among these is the 02 1/10. That year, someone paid a TV program to promote 1/10 and 1/20 oz gold panda master sets. It went well and sales were very strong. So a lot of 1/10 were isolated from the year set to assemble its own size master set. 02 1/10 could not be found enough to supply both 1 1/10 set and whole master set. The price moved from $400 level to $3000 level. 06 1/10 also did pretty well for the same reason. When the sales down, the prices dropped. The 02 1/10 price dropped to the $400 level last year and now I think in the $800 level. 95 ½ is the current key one, the most wanted. It started at $3000 level years ago, and went to around $30k at the peak, dropped to $7k-8k level and now around $16k. I know there were other factors behind the first price jump at $3000 level years ago, but now the demand is still strong. Can it go back to $30k level? If gold price is keep going up and master sets program goes well, it is possible. But it’s kind of risky. All the buyers I know at this price level are the end users who are using the coin to form master sets, no investors, nor collectors. I would spend the same amount of money to buy two 95 proof pandas and I will be happy and sleep well.
Besides
whole master sets program, there are other gold panda programs. I spent
years to persuade the main gift company to restart the 1/10 and 1/20 oz
program and the new 1 oz program. My theory is in the future, the gold
price might be really high and some half oz and ¼ oz will be super tough
to find. If they can do the 1 oz and 1 /10 master set program, the cost
will be much lower, the supply will be much better and it will fit
different levels of buyers. Now they have 1 oz gold and silver program,
1/10 program, 1/20 program and master sets programs. The master sets
program is still the best seller.
That’s all the information for
now. I just wrote what I thought and it’s really not well organized. I
usually don’t write this long here at the forum. I think the last long
one I wrote was about the 1989 dragon and phoenix long time ago. If you
like it and think it’s useful, I am happy; if you don’t like it and
think it’s useless, I am sorry to waste your time. No matter you agree
or disagree with me, I respect you. Different people has different
vision and different opinions. I don’t want to convince anyone, I just
want to express my own thoughts and only represent myself.
The
only suggestion I can give is if possible, boost your connections. Try
to talk to the top dealers here and also the high end collectors. That
will help you. The time you bought a coin for 10 dollars and sold it to
China for 100 bulks is long gone. You need to act before the market,
this requires your vision, your judgment which based on the information
you can get.
I am lucky that I have been collecting MCC for more
than 20 years. I’m lucky that I have chance to connect with all major
US dealers who deal with chinese coins. I’m lucky that I have good
connection with almost all key dealers in China and I’m lucky that I
know most of the high end MCC collectors in China. Once you have all
these, you learn from each other and you know some inside information. I
can ask questions like:
Do you know last year, China mint spent
800 million RMB to do gold panda advertisement on a high speed rail
train and that helped the market a lot?
Do you know roughly how many master sets were sold each of the past years?
Do you know how many 95,96,97 5 oz bi metal panda coins are still in the China mint?
Do you know there is a 1988 platinum panda LD version which is a pattern of two known?
Do you know the 87 no P version and 92 high 2 version are experimental trials and should never be released to the public?
I
can probably ask another 50-100 these kind of questions that I know the
answer and you may not. But, so what, who cares! We are MCC collectors.
No matter we are old, we are young, we are rich, we are poor, coin
collecting is our hobby. The money you earn from it is limited, but the
joy, the happiness you get from it is priceless and last forever.
Enjoy the weekend, enjoy coin collecting and enjoy life, specially in the middle of this tough 2020.
Some key ones in each size:
1/20 oz: 1983,1998,2000
