Thai Guru's Gold und Silber ... (Informationen und Vermutungen)

  • Noch einmal ein paar grundsätzliche Dinge:


    Wir reden oft über Werte, wirkliche Werte, Papiergeld, den Wert an sich usw.


    Ein Problem ergibt sich durch etwas, was dottore im Elliottwellen-Forum schon oft herausgestellt hat:


    Gold und Silber sind kein "Geld" im Sinne eines staatl. legitimierten Zahlungsmittels mit dem man z.B. seine Steuern bezahlen kann und leider MUSS.


    Ja, wer Gold hat, hat immer Geld - müßte momentan wohl eher heißen:


    Wer Gold hat, wird dafür immer das jeweils geltende staatl. Zahlungsmittel "besorgen"/eintauschen können.


    oder


    Wer Gold hat, wird einen gewissen Gegenwert , eine gewissen Kaufkraft durch alle Zeiten, in jedem Land, in jeder Situation über die Zeit retten können...


    Aber kurzfristig ergibt sich damit dann doch wieder eine gewisse Abhängigkeit vom staatl. legimierten Zahlungsmittel.


    Darum halte ich es auch , nicht nur für Silberproduzenten sondern für jeden einzelnen, für richtig und wichtig, stets auch eine Reserve in Form staatl. legitmierter Zahlungsmittel zu halten.


    Eben, damit man nicht gezwungen ist, G+S in einer Zwangssituation zu einem Preis verkaufen zu müssen, der nicht optimal ist.


    Ich habe jetzt bewußt vermieden zu schreiben, "unter Wert"


    Denn m.E. gibt es am Markt kein "unter Wert"


    Eine Sache hat immer den Wert, der am Markt gerade erzielbar ist.


    Und wenn ich aktuell Silber pro Unze laut Kitcokurs von einem Verkäufer zu diesem Kurs (von mir aus mit geringem Aufschlag) kaufen kann, dann, dann bedeutet das, daß jemand bereit ist, für diesen Preis zu verkaufen und jemand bereit ist, zu diesem Kurs zu kaufen...
    Das macht dann den Wert aus.


    Und der Wert einer Sache ist dabei IMMER SUBJEKTIV , dh von der rein subjektiven Einschätzung von zwei Personen abhängig: Käufer und Verkäufer !


    Wenn nun Butler und Co argumentieren, der Wert von Silber zB sei höher und der (richtige) Preis müsse höher sein, dann ist das ihre subj. Sichtweise, die aber erst einmal von anderen geteilt werden muß.


    Und ob sich sich die Sichtweise bei vielen anderen Menschen ändert, wer vermag das vorauszusagen.


    Die Frage wird immer sein: Brauche ich etwas dringend oder glaube ich zumindest, es für irgendetwas zu gebrauchen (z.B. Hoffnung, es später noch teurer verkaufen zu können). Und was ist mir (und anderen, die die Sache auch haben möchten) der Besitz dieser Sache unter diesen Voraussetzungen momentan "wert"


    Es gibt viele Dinge, die selten oder knapp sind ( Vierblättrige Kleeblätter sind auch sehr selten - aber sind sie auch viel wert ???).
    Seltenheit oder Knappheit sind also kein Garant für hohen Wert.


    Silber wird zumindest noch industriell (ver)braucht.
    Für bestimmte Produzenten wird es auch nicht problemlos zu ersetzen sein: Das heißt, wenn es wirklich pyhs. knapp wäre, würden die bis zu einem Punkt X zwangsläufig mehr zahlen - das wäre dann der Wert.


    Bei GOLD (die Anwendungen als Zahnfüllung/Schmuck spielen m.E. eine untergeordnete Rolle) spielt allein die Psychologie eine Rolle bzw. eine gewisse subj. Wertvorstellung bzw. Fähigkeit, in Form von Gold Werte aufbewahren zu können, die in der Menschheit seit Jahrtausenden ziemlich fest verankert zu sein scheint.


    Spieler

    "So wie die Freiheit bleibt Gold nie lange dort, wo es nicht geschätzt wird."
    J.S.Morill in einer Rede vor dem U.S.-Senat am 28.01.1878.

  • Lieber Spieler,


    re. deinem 22:46 vom 08.09.2004, einige Anmerkungen dazu:


    [der Markt hat immer Recht]
    -es stimmt, aber er hat jeden Tag bei anderen Werten Recht.
    d.h. er ist ein snapshot (eine Momentaufnahme) der Summe aller
    Einschätzungen, welche wir in diesem Moment vertreten.


    Woraus ist der Markt jedoch gemacht? Aus der Gesamtmenge aller
    Partizipanten in diesem Markt. Hierbei gibt es Mehrheitsmeinungen
    als auch Minderheitsmeinungen, wobei die Mehrheitsmeinung durchaus
    auch falsch liegen kann. Sie wird auch solange richtig liegen,
    bis eine - qualifizierte/quantifizierte- Minderheit sie sowohl
    durch ihre Einschätzung als auch durch ihr daraus entstehendes
    Verhalten übertrumpft und sich zur neuen Mehrheit - aufgrund
    besserer/zutreffenderer Ansichten/Einschätzungen - herauskristallisiert.


    Somit ist die Marktmeinung/der Markt (die vorherschende Meinung)
    ebenfalls unter mittel/langfristigen Betrachtungen ebensooft daneben
    wie die Überzahl seiner Partizipanten.


    Die Behauptung: der Markt hat immer Recht, ist genauso,
    als wollte ich apostolieren:
    -Meine Familie hat immer Recht, obwohl 4 von 5 Mitgliedern
    möglicherweise gerade Unrecht haben.


    Diese Behauptung wurde - als ein dummes Gemeinplätzchen - von
    Leuten in die Welt gesetzt, welche den Markt betrachtet, aber nicht
    verstanden haben. Nachdem sie dann zuoft daneben lagen, hatten
    sie nur zwei Möglichkeiten - ihre Ignoranz zu akzeptieren - oder
    ihren Gegenspieler (den Markt) zum Allmächtigen zu erklären. Sie
    haben sich dann - ebenfalls - in der Überzahl zum Ersten entschieden.


    -- Sie haben eben aus ihren eigenen Fehlern nicht lernen wollen --


    By the way, mein lieber Spieler0815, sehe gerade du kommst
    aus Norddeutschland (sagt nicht viel aus, iss man gor nich soo lütt)


    Ich : gebürtiger Hannoveraner, langjähriger Wahl-Holsteiner,
    Meine Frau und die beiden ältesten: Echte Ostholsteiner
    Unser jüngster: tatsächlich ein Hesse geworden, obwohl wir
    extra einen Küsten-Urlaub für die Zeit gebucht hatten.
    Aber der Arzt wollte schnell noch vorher einen Stress-Test
    machen und unser jüngster entschied: "Stress!!, Oh-kay, kannste
    kriegen". Acht Minuten später war er da. Ächt 'en fixen Jung,
    der Kerl.


    Wenn du mal wirklich tiefer Einblick bei der "Silver-Depletion-Rate"
    Einblick nehmen willst, "Sooch mol Beschoid" - und wenn ich
    Zeit habe - ich habe über Commodities, speziell Gold/Silber/Öl ca
    eineinhalb DVDs an Daten zum Thema.


    Germoney

    As a general rule, it is foolish to do just what other people are doing,
    because there are almost sure to be too many people doing the same thing.
    William Stanley Jevons (1835-1882)

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    September 8 - Gold $398.90 up $2– Silver $6.16 down 2 cents


    Goldman Sachs Stuffs Gold Rally / World Gold Council Must Go!


    Zitat

    We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office...Aesop (620 BC-560 BC), Greek slave and fable writer


    GO GATA!!!


    Buying surfaced in Hong Kong (as expected here) last evening, however when the dollar rose sharply vis-à-vis the euro, gold sold off going into the Comex open. Weak specs were flushed out early as gold fell to the $395 level and then reversed course for two reasons:


    *the extremely firm physical market
    *the dollar reversed course very sharply


    It seems traders were waiting for Greenspan to give his usual Wall Street spin presentation before Congress this morning and to sell the dollar on his delivery. The dollar eventually fell .44 to 88.80, while the euro gained .75 to 121.82. With the euro rebounding off a 120.25 low, gold was spurred on.


    The "fast funds" were early buyers along with SoGen. Once gold cleared unchanged, it made a beeline for $400. Then GOLDMAN SACHS along with Deutsche Bank SIMULTANEOUSLY began to sell "thousands" of contracts to stem the advance. It is almost ALWAYS Goldman Sachs, along with someone else, stopping gold when it builds a head of steam. I have been reporting on this constant price-capping at strategic moments by Goldman Sachs for 6 years and only three weeks after The Café opened for business. During this entire time, no one outside the GATA camp has reported on this blatant routine by one particular firm. Like Aesop stated when it comes to thieves, "the great ones are appointed to office." Ex-CEO of Goldman Sachs, John Corzine, is now Senator Corzine representing the noble state of New Jersey.


    Goldman Sach’s selling, along with its allies, was enough to peter out the gold rally. Considering the magnitude of the dollar sell-off and euro rally, today’s positive day left a very unsatisfying taste. The euro has gone up 1.20 during the last two US trading sessions and gold has gone down $3.10. However, the floor was very satisfied with the close.


    The gold open interest fell 3958 contracts to 256,711 as the specs exit the gold market right on cue and as expected – their pockets picked by the cabal for around the 50th time in a row.


    Silver continued to purge some of its last holdout specs. As a result, while it turned around after staring at $6, it could not close higher for the session. There was just too much spec pressure late in the day.


    This market is SOLD OUT!

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    The John Brimelow Report


    Happy Indians; Bianco on Authorities and Markets


    Wednesday, September 08, 2004


    Indian ex-duty premiums: AM $7.49, PM $8.21, with world gold at $398.45 and $396. 90. Extremely high. India is clearly a very active importer at these prices.


    The same is apparently true for silver also. Several commentators remark on the strength of physical demand after the price slide, including Mitsui-London:


    "This morning…with an initial fall of 10c, the silver has found very good physical support coming in, especially from the Indians."
    (Mitsui is a big silver shipper to India.)


    TOCOM gold sprang into life, for reasons that are not clear. Volume surged 88% to the equivalent of 40,866 Comex lots, for once exceeding platinum by value traded. The active contract fell 15 yen, but world gold actually edged up 70c from the NY close. Open interest was fairly steady, falling the equivalent of 421 Comex lots to equal 89,779 lots. (NY yesterday traded 64,186 lots; open interest fell 3,958 to 256,711 contracts,)


    Yesterday (and again this morning) gold overseas was reasonably firm, but was mauled in NY. Observers, as usual blame "funds". Refco Research:


    "From open on the COMEX, gold futures largely ignored a soft tone in the dollar and trekked lower on fund long liquidation (and selling). Bank buying (short covering) into weakness helped limit the decline."


    UBS:


    "…funds continued the selling they started on Friday. Despite the huge selling the market was countered with good physical demand, holding the $397 support…Gold closed near the lows. The Asian market showed good bids again but the market run into more fund selling near $399. Europe started timid around $398.50 and is waiting to see if the physical demand will be enough to support the profit taking wave."


    Volume yesterday did turn out to be heavy. (Unusually, the Comex estimate was exceeded by the actual by 50%, having made the reverse error about Friday.) Open interest contraction slowed, suggesting Refco is right in sensing shorting present as well as capitulation. If heavy, this would open the way to a steeper recovery than otherwise.


    (At this writing -12-25 PM – gold, having bounced $4, has traded sideways just under $400 for just over an hour. A very odd pattern!)


    With Wall Street preparing for a bout of Greenspan-worship, it was timely to read a skeptical comment from Bianco Research this morning, which also draws attention to the inter-relationship between the authorities and politically sensitive markets:


    "Comment - Alan Greenspan has been fond of saying that the oil market has been dominated by speculators who pushed the price to nearly $50. He often cites the CoT report as evidence. Now the BIS is echoing (or maybe just repeating) Mr. Greenspan.


    "The data…tells a different story…We believe that if any one group was behind the move higher, it was the Hedgers. Their net position was extremely net short last March. As prices moved higher, they began to cover, or buy back, their short positions. That, more than any action by large speculators, helped drive oil prices higher. A similar development occurred in June 1999. Once again, the Hedgers were at an extreme net short position. This bet on a peak in the price of crude oil failed…


    "Furthermore, while Greenspan is fond of blaming hedge funds and other leveraged speculators for higher crude oil prices, he's quick to dismiss any notion that his policy of holding the target federal funds rate below its "neutral rate" (which most believe is at least 3%) is causing any speculation in interest rates. (JB emphasis)


    "To put it bluntly, it looks like Greenspan/BIS are not actually doing analysis but justifying current policy. They believe high crude oil prices do not reflect well on their policy choices so they simply attribute the aberrant rise in prices to speculation. In much the same way, they believe that rampant speculation in short-term interest rates also does not reflect well on them or their policies, so they announce that there is no such speculation in short-term interest rates.


    "One wonders what "announcements" Greenspan will make later today."


    JB

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    CARTEL CAPITULATION WATCH


    The US economic news continues to be dismal and Greenspan’s testimony was less than exhilarating, yet the DOW only lost 29 to 10,313, while the DOG dropped 8 to 1851. If it weren’t for the PPT the US stock market would be MUCH lower than where it is. In time their efforts will fail. Look out below!


    Greenspan before Congress:


    Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said Wednesday the U.S. economy has "regained some traction" after faltering during the second quarter, hinting strongly the central bank will raise interest rates when its top policy-makers next meet Sept. 21.
    But in testimony to the House Budget Committee, Greenspan implied the Fed sees no reason to accelerate the pace of "measured" interest-rate increases the Fed has followed since June. "Despite the rise in oil prices through mid-August, inflation and inflation expectations have eased in recent months," he said in prepared remarks.


    The US economic news CONTINUES to fail to meet expectations:


    09:09 WMT not changing holiday sales view despite a weak August - Reuters
    Company is presenting at the Goldman retail conference currently; Bloomberg reports that the CEO says gas prices and terrorism concerns are hurting consumer spending.
    * * * * *


    Sept. 8 (Bloomberg) -- Delta Air Lines Inc., calling bankruptcy ``a real possibility,'' will cut as many as 7,000 jobs, or 12 percent of its workforce, as part of a plan to shave $5 billion in costs by 2006.
    Delta, the third-largest U.S. airline, will eliminate most flights at its Dallas-Fort Worth base and expand operations in Atlanta, Cincinnati and Salt Lake City, Chief Executive Gerald Grinstein said in a speech to employees broadcast over the Internet. –END-


    Coca-Cola lowered its expectations for the coming quarter.


    REUTERS Economy in many US regions slowed in July, Aug-Fed


    WASHINGTON, Sept 8 (Reuters) - The economy in many areas of the United States grew at a slower pace in late July and August as household spending softened, the Federal Reserve said in a report on Wednesday.


    "Economic activity continued to expand in late July and August, although several districts indicated that the pace had slowed," the Fed said in its "beige book," an anecdotal look at the U.S. economy from the perspective of its 12 regional banks.


    The Fed said in the report that a softening in household spending reflected "lackluster retail sales and some cooling in new and existing home sales." –END-


    15:00 July Consumer Credit rises $10.9B to $2.04T
    Expectations were for an increase of $7.5B. Prior reading revised to $4.3B from $6.6B.
    * * * * *


    Bellwether Intel made another 52-week low close at $19.72, down 17 cents. Texas Instruments warned after the close, saying cell phone sales are disappointing.



    Meanwhile, the situation in Iraq is near chaos:


    U.S. Conceding Rebels Control Regions of Iraq
    By Eric Schmitt and Steven R. Weisman
    The New York Times


    Wednesday 08 September 2004


    WASHINGTON - As American military deaths in Iraq operations surpassed the 1,000 mark, top Pentagon officials said Tuesday that insurgents controlled important parts of central Iraq and that it was unclear when American and Iraqi forces would be able to secure those areas….. –END-


    Two more US soldiers were killed today along with scores more of Iraqis.


    GATA’s Mike Bolser:


    Hi Bill:
    The Federal Reserve added $4.5 Billion in temporary repurchase agreements today, September 8th 2004, an action that reduced the repo pool a bit to $57.515 Billion. It is still VERY high and the pool's 30-day moving average has turned sharply up. This indicates a firm Fed application of repo support that is directly associated with the recent DOW up turn. The DOW's ma is also moving back up. Taking a DOW Diamond position for the September expiration, however distasteful that may seem, isn't a bad idea at this moment.


    This DOW movement and repo match is similar to the pool's up spike in December that took the DOW up with it. It seems to me like the Fed has refocused away from oil derivatives (If that's where the excess repo funding went) towards the DOW in earnest. Do not be short.


    DIVG


    The PM Fix was $396.30 and € 329.15 with the common dollar index up a bit. I get my clean DIVG at 12:30PM but this prelim looks like the cartel might be slipping the DIVG a bit.


    My Thursday deadline for being in your favorite gold vehicle may be stretched out a bit, giving folks a little longer to buy in at the mini cycle low. It's like picking the exact day of a bottom swing and as such one shouldn't focus too much on the minutia. I'll have the clue I want by closing time today.


    The Fed in May exited their retreat plan (set since Feb), topped on July 2 and then came back down and turned around on August 17th. Since the 17th we have bounced a bit but are getting set for another turn perhaps down, perhaps flat. IF it is down then I know how far to down move will go and it won't last more than two weeks. I'll have more later in the day on this topic.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++


    The Wall Street propaganda machine is well-oiled and ready to pounce on any off message article such as John Embry's recent piece. They simply shunt it to the side. Others challenging the official view of things find similar sledding:


    Graham Says White House Hid Sept. 11 Info
    By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
    Published: September 7, 2004 Filed at 10:48 p.m. ET
    http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin…nal/AP-Graham-Saudis.html


    WASHINGTON (AP) -- Former Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Bob Graham accused the White House on Tuesday of covering up evidence that might have linked Saudi Arabia to the Sept. 11 hijackers.


    Graham's charges, made in a new book and at a news conference arranged by the John Kerry campaign, were rejected by Republicans as ``bizarre conspiracy theories.'' The Saudis said Graham's claims were unsubstantiated and reckless.
    ++++++++++++++


    The above story is useful to gold bugs as it reveals the response of those controlling the news to any "message" contradiction. Play the "conspiracy" card. I'm not evangelizing here but there is a mountain of unanswered 911 questions, not least of which is the conspicuous Bin laden/Bush oil link; the aided exit from Tampa during private flight grounding orders; the link from the Saudi firm Delta Oil to the commission's chair Kean (Amerada Hess is partnered with Delta Oil); and the huge short selling of American and United Airlines the week before 9/11.


    It is my view that ignoring the identity of the 9/11 short sellers is like omitting the name Oswald from the JFK assassination probe.


    Graham was a long term member of the House Intelligence Committee and had ample access to classified information.


    Don't ever expect Wall Street to acknowledge the gold "problem". They will be buried by a wall of physical buyers who have given up on their "good economy" nonsense.


    The twin hurricanes that hit and a third still threatening Florida have had a serious effect on the fall tourism season and hence Florida's economy. So much so that Jeb Bush has launched an ad campaign luring customers. That's a bit much with 50,000 Tampa customers still without power, the food stores shelves denuded of perishables and West Palm Beach residents in shock from similar but much worse conditions.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


    More later,…….


    Hi Bill:
    Last week's Thursday, September 9th deadline for being IN has been extended for about a week to September 17th but no longer (to be safe) so folks now have a bit more time to acquire their favorite gold investment. This occurred because the Fed seems to be turning the metric I follow from up to downwards after their bounce on August 17th.


    Given the heavy physical buying information flowing into the café this additional Fed down press maneuver makes no logical sense at all, especially in light of the bond top last Thursday. All I know is what the Fed has done and it affords another buying opportunity at a time when other major indexes are turning. If I'm wrong then this move is only a flat phase and players won't be hurt by waiting. If I'm right then some additional bullion or equity discounts will be garnered. Selling gold equities at this point is NOT recommended.


    We can say by inspection that the Fed is whip-sawing the COMEX gold market by running it up, then down then up again. The COMEX speculators really don't like this whip-saw one bit and have run away. It wrecks their computer models. In my experience the Fed does things for a reason and this prep work is looking more and more suspicious.


    I'm still concerned that all this bullion selling is a set-up for a big event right around $400 per ounce.
    +++++++++++++


    Georgia Boiling, Putin's Rage


    For months I have been warning that Vladimir Putin is very unhappy with the US for meddling in Georgia. Recently, sources inside Russia have directly criticized the US for indirectly aiding Chechen terrorists.


    Today the gloves came off with the following angry Putin speech. In it, Putin accused the US of interacting with Chechen terrorists, giving asylum to rebel ministers and accused the UK providing asylum to the envoy (Zakayev) of the leader of Chechen terrorists (Maskhadov). Putin came ever-so-close to accusing the US of being directly involved with the Beslan atrocity. The phrase that Russia was... "one of the greatest nuclear powers
    of the world" was conspicuous.


    This situation is very serious and represents one more foreign policy land mine that the administration has carefully sought out and then...stepped on. Delusional is the only word for the Bush policy of attempted Russian destabilization.


    Wednesday, September 8, 2004. Page 1.
    Putin Lashes Out at the U.S.
    By Simon Saradzhyan
    Staff Writer
    http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2004/09/08/002.html


    President Vladimir Putin accused the United States of undermining Russia's struggle against terror by meeting with Chechen separatists and rejected calls for a public inquiry into whether authorities mishandled the hostage-taking in Beslan.


    Putin told a group of Western policy analysts Monday night that his administration has repeatedly complained about meetings between U.S. officials and representatives of Chechen separatists, but to no avail.


    -END-


    Mike



    Gold demand news:


    Taiwan's demand for gold increases 19%


    CNA , TAIPEI
    Monday, Sep 06, 2004,


    Taiwan's demand for gold during the second quarter of this year increased 19 percent compared to a year earlier, according to the latest report released by the World Gold Council (WGC). –END-


    What goes around comes around! JP Morgan Chase and Citigroup Inc. are both Gold Cartel heavyweights and both were cited as defendants in Reg Howe’s lawsuit in Boston Federal Court years ago. Both have been stiffed in the Daughters of Gwalia matter by their own nefarious greed and crooked ways. Let’s hear some Bronx cheers for the bums:


    Wednesday September 8, 6:26 PM


    Gwalia Says Total Liabilities A$862M, May Sell Tantalum


    PERTH (Dow Jones)--The administrators of collapsed gold and tantalum miner Sons of Gwalia Ltd. (SGW.AU) said Wednesday that total liabilities are now estimated at A$862 million, with operations continuing on a "business as usual basis".


    Liabilities including A$490 million of financier and counterparty debt, A$235 million owed to U.S. noteholders and A$70 million to trade creditors, they said in a statement. Earlier estimates had put the total debt at almost A$700 million…..


    Besides the hedging debt, Sons of Gwalia was last month estimated to owe US$170 million to U.S. pension funds, following a private note placement in 2000 arranged by J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. (JPM).


    Citigroup Inc. (C) is understood to be the company's biggest hedging counterparty, with an exposure of between A$100 million and A$150 million.


    -END-


    To the venerable Mr. Richard Russell:


    From: Wistar Holt [mailto:wholt@holtshapard.com]
    Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 10:08 AM
    To: 'staff@dowtheoryletters.com'
    Subject: Wistar Holt @ Holt & Shapard Capital Management. St. Louis, Mo.


    Dear Richard,


    As much as I respect you for your experience and market wisdom, I have to point out that you appear to be showing signs lately of selective memory. Yesterday (and often), you supported your "deflation" forecast, referencing that day’s decline in gold and silver (as well as higher bonds and lower CRB.) However, you ignored the fact that copper was much stronger (remember, this economic indicator is amongst the best) and stocks were much stronger. One can certainly not claim that the equity market is forecasting deflation or else the indices would be plummeting by now.


    All of this is leading me to a point. Most of us supporters of GATA (Gold Anti-Trust Action) and James Sinclair clearly believe that the gold and silver markets are manipulated excessively by the bullion banks, central banks, and the ESF. The metals daily declines have absolutely nothing to do with deflation forecasts. Presently, the fundamentals are extremely bullish for the following reasons:


    1. Expanding budget, trade, and current account deficits
    2. Sharply rising debt and declining savings rates
    3. Sprott Asset Management gold manipulation documentation
    4. Argentina gold purchase of 42 tons
    5. USB report claiming European central banks will only sell ½ of the amount of gold approved by the second Washington Agreement
    6. Sons of Gwalia declaring bankruptcy with excessive gold hedges
    7. Expansion of gold trading and accumulation in China


    Most of us believe that the ESF is also behind the "stabilization" of the U.S. dollar (they don’t want it either too strong or too weak), as well as the equity markets. This is the reason we witness such volatility and inconsistency in the markets. Intel’s significant negative news is suddenly a moot point and the market soars? The dollar surprisingly rallies following very negative consumer confidence and ISM data? This is a joke!


    At times you subtly reference "manipulation," or as you call it the "zutz." If you do feel it exists, perhaps elaborating on that explanation provides a clearer rationale to your audience than trying to apply fundamental logic, when there are counterbalancing forces at work.


    Sincerely,


    Wistar W. Holt
    Holt & Shapard Capital Management, LLC
    212 N. Kingshighway Blvd. Suite 1027
    St. Louis, MO 63108
    (314)367-6300 / (877)367-6300
    http://www.holtshapard.com/


    GROUNDHOG DAY ALL OVER AGAIN


    If anyone thinks every day seems like groundhog day the last 3 months in the trading markets here might be the reason why. I took a closing settlement from June 1 and compared it to a settlement around September 1st. By the way, can you spot the non-rigged market in the bunch?


    June 1st September 1st


    DJU4 (Dow) 10,195 10,171
    SPU4 (S-P) 1121 1119 (9-2)
    DXU4 (dollar) 89.16 88.92
    CLV4 (crude) 41.10 42.15
    GCZ4 (gold) 398.00 399.40 (9-7)
    SIZ4 (silver 6.10 6.19 (9-8)
    LBU4 (lumber) 366.90 446.30


    What are the odds of all the above financial instruments being essentially unchanged 3 months forward? Lumber on the other hand is all over the map and winds up 22% higher? Don't blame lumber prices on hurricanes either, lumber had been doing multiple limit-ups prior to the hurricane season. Lumber is not rigged because of 2 things, it is not a proxy or a threat to the Wall Street paper instruments and the lumber mills actually DESIRE a higher price and will not sabotage that happening. They have the benefit of a housing bubble (demand) and have control of production (supply). They legitimately hedge, but would never commit for years of production at outlandishly low prices. They are vociferous in their belief in lumber. If the lumber industry had a WGC type equivalent they would advocate buying lumber for crafts and hobby use, while ignoring the billions of board feet that could be consumed in homebuilding. Rigged vs. non-rigged? Only Wall Street, the FED, ESF, JPM, Goldman Sachs (and fortunately GATA) know for sure.


    Yours truly on a perfect $2 collar day,
    James McShirley



    Heads-up:


    Hi Bill,
    You're so very right in last night' Midas in saying "To this day there has not been ONE serious treatment of the brilliant Sprott report by the financial market press around the world." The only news publication doing any reporting seems to be Business Times in Singapore. The article is already archived and the site requires a password.


    Per the Singapore Press Holdings web site "SPH publishes 14 newspapers in the four official languages and six lifestyle magazines. Everyday, 2.78 million people, or 90 per cent of those above 15 years old, read one of these. Its online editions of six main SPH newspapers enjoy some 120 million pageviews a month."


    Canada report lends support to gold 'conspiracy' - August 26, 2004
    ... In a document titled 'Not free, not fair: the long-term manipulation of the gold
    price,' John Embry, the chief investment strategist at Sprott Asset Management ...
    http://business-times.asia1.co…ory/0,4574,126643,00.html


    - 43k -similar pages
    Regards,
    Greg

  • [Blockierte Grafik: http://www.goldseek.com/news/LemetropoleCafe/lmpc.jpg]


    http://www.lemetropolecafe.com


    CARTEL CAPITULATION WATCH



    THE WORLD GOLD COUNCIL MUST GO!


    This is going to be brief and right to the point. The World Gold Council has to be one of the most ineffectual organizations in history. Worse than that, it has stood in the way of organizations such as GATA that have worked to expose the most important aspect of the gold market: the manipulation and suppression of the gold price itself. Can there be any more important issue to the shareholders of the companies that support this so-called council?


    With all that is going on in the world these days that is probably going to send the price of gold to the moon, the WGC comes out this past week with a $17 million jewelry promotion. Much criticism was sent their way in years past about their failure to address gold as money and its growing role as a strategic investment vehicle. To promote gold's jewelry aspect is almost harmful in the area where it could help the most. Sure, many people in India, Asia, and the Middle East buy HIGH-CARATAGE jewelry, partly as a form of investments They will continue to do so. What needs stimulating is Western investment demand. Promoting the jewelry aspect of gold IS a NEGATIVE to most investors in the west for gold jewelry represents high mark ups, lower gold content and a lousy investment – one that loses 40% of its value or more once the buyer leaves walks out of the jewelry store.


    Bottom line is the WGC is a nauseating failure of an organization and must go. Their exchange traded fund entity scheduled to debut on the NYSE is so far behind schedule, it is farcical. As I understand it, the WGC has gone through a "quiet period" during this registration process. Brilliant move! If this so, and since they filed this new entity 18 months ago, they have been rendered useless (which they always are anyway) during this period of time. Why are their members paying them $3 per ounce of gold produced to do nothing? It is a complete waste of money.


    The World Gold Council only has 22 members but they include some of the most influential gold companies -- Anglogold, Barrick, Newmont, Gold Fields, and Placer Dome. Then there are smaller companies like Golden Star Resources, which much to my consternation remains a member.


    I believe that Golden Star CEO Peter Bradford is one of the finest executives in the gold industry and deserves many accolades for turning GSS (my first or second largest share holding) from an exploration play into a mid-tier gold producer. Late last year Golden Star was the high flyer from a stock appreciation standpoint among the smaller producers. But since Golden Star's bid for Iamgold was rebuffed, the GSS share price has languished and lost its standout status.


    Surely, the costs incurred in the takeover effort will have to be written off. That's the way the cookie crumbles. Yet it's time to get this superb company on the move again -- time to cut costs. Golden Star Resources has become a player and has grown up. As a substantial shareholder and one who has brought perhaps a thousand or so other shareholders to the company, I urge Golden Star to get out of the World Gold Council. It is a waste of our shareholder money.


    I have spoken to Peter about this as well as to Golden Star's very able CFO, Alan Marter. In this regard, I urge all Café members who are GSS shareholders to contact the company on this matter if you feel like I do. Enough is enough. Perhaps we can influence the company in some way so that it may be more profitable and we can start something -- maybe the establishment of an organization that really will represent gold shareholders around the world.


    My colleague Chris Powell sent out this dispatch last week. Chris has a wonderful talent of laying out the picture clearly with very few words:


    8p ET Thursday, September 2, 2004


    Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:


    The World Gold Council purports to be the representative of the gold community but until today it had had virtually nothing to say for three months -- not a word about Sprott Asset Management's report confirming the manipulation of the gold price, not a word about the collapse of Sons of Gwalia because of excessive hedging, not a word about Blanchard & Co.'s lawsuit against Barrick Gold and JP Morgan Chase for manipulating the gold market, and barely a word about Argentina's defiance of the International Monetary Fund by purchasing 42 tonnes of gold for diversifying its foreign exchange reserves.


    And as the world financial system creaks, groans, and trembles all around, what was today's WGC statement about?


    It was about another advertising campaign for gold jewelry -- anything except analysis of what really matters to gold's future, liberating the price and thereby restoring monetary and investment demand and adding to individual liberty throughout the world.


    Today's statement from the gold council is appended. The council calls its jewelry campaign "Speak Gold." It might better be called "Speak No Evil."


    CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
    Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.


    * * *


    World Gold Council unveils £10m global advertising campaign


    September 2, 2004


    http://www.gold.org/news.php?id=3329273


    The World Gold Council (WGC) has unveiled its latest £10 million international advertising campaign, "Speak Gold," designed to stimulate consumer demand for gold jewellery in key global markets.


    Acclaimed photographers Michael Yamashita, William Albert Allard, Jodi Cobb, and Joel Sartore, were asked to capture the emotional role played by gold jewellery in the lives of women all over the world……


    -END-


    Some feedback from Café members on the World Gold Council:


    Bill,
    The WGC Speak Gold campaign is worse than just misguided effort. It is in my opinion a denigration cloaked as a promotion. By using adjectives such as "ordinary" and "everyday lives" they reduce gold to mere common status, and in fact take away the exclusivity gold should carry. Ordinary people are getting pushed to the wall with inflation and monetary debasement and yet they launch "jewelry for the common woman". Ordinary people are far more interested in real wealth protection than bobbles and adornments. The WGC not just ordinary stupidity but a deliberate insidious message in my opinion. Much like the tobacco industry educating children on the dangers of smoking. The WGC is the last organization that should be educating anybody, yet they keep getting millions to misinform. That is no accident, IMO.
    Best wishes,
    James McShirley


    Hi Bill,
    As per your request at bottom of Midas, I sent my below email to all those media email addresses.
    Regards, Sid


    Subject: FW: WGC in avoidance mode



    Hi all,
    For some strange reason the WGC (World Gold Council, who is supposedly pro-gold) won't reply to any emails which explain the illegal downward manipulation of the gold price. This manipulation is explained in my attached concise proof.doc, which I called Gold Manipulation for Dummies, so anyone can understand. It is also explained in the recent highly acclaimed Sprott report (at http://www.sprott.com then click on Special Report) , which WGC still has yet to comment on.


    NB: The WGC does reply to other emails (not related to manipulation) - I have tested this already.


    Clearly, either:


    a) WGC doesn't believe in gold price manipulation, which is fine, but they won't explain why they disagree... or


    b) WGC is too scared to accept manipulation (because an exploding gold price would destroy some hedgers & derivative banks such as Barrick, J P Morgan... and of course Sons of Gwalia who GATA predicted a year ago would collapse and have done so)... or


    c) WGC is actually anti-gold (eg part of the manipulation scam), despite saying they are pro-gold.


    Could you all send this email to the following email addresses:


    Katharine.Pulvermacher@gold.org
    jill.leyland@gold.org
    info@gold.org


    If they don't reply (as I suspect) please send it more than once.
    Regards, Sid


    Bill,
    If I can take you away from the TCU football game, Dallas Cowboy Preseason game and George Bush money spending marathon speech; all happening simultaneously' and of most importance to Dallas Texans, I enjoyed your email regarding the World Gold Council.


    As one who has enough interest in Gold to attend your Washington DC press club presentation a few years ago amongst other gold events I must admit that I had never been to the World Gold Councils web site. I went their tonight. One of the curious features of their site, I noticed right off, is their 13 most frequently asked questions. None of which mentioned GATA. Makes me wonder: "Frequently asked by whom?" Their silly frequently asked questions prompted me to pose a question of my own to the World Gold Council by email:


    I noticed at your web site you have the 13 most frequently asked questions.
    One question I hear all the time, but I did not see on your list of most frequently asked questions, is who is the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee?
    Who are they and how do you support them?


    I'm not holding my breath waiting for an answer.


    Yo Gata! Yo Murphy!
    Greg


    The gold shares continue to weave and bob with little conviction. The smaller golds remain comatose.


    The XAU lost .38 to 91.77 and the HUI gave up .94 to `98.36.


    The euro put in an outside key reversal day to the upside:


    http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/EC/94


    The incredibly bullish news brought to your attention over the past many days has not gone away. Neither have the Arab, Chinese and Indian cash market buyers. The case for owning old is going off the charts. I will be stunned and dead wrong if gold and silver are not FLYING by next week!


    GATA BE IN IT TO WIN IT!


    MIDAS


    Appendix


    http://www.nationalreview.com/…/bartlett200409080940.asp


    September 08, 2004, 9:40 a.m.
    Creative Accounting Only Goes So Far
    Unsound transactions are going to catch up with the government.


    A new report from the Congressional Budget Office explains that the deficit is a virtually meaningless measure of the government’s indebtedness. The main reason for this is that the federal government uses cash accounting rather than accrual accounting. What this means is that the government can acquire massive debts far into the future with virtual impunity. The government can also, in effect, cosign for loans and provide insurance that could potentially cost taxpayers hundreds of billion of dollars without it ever showing up in the budget until a check has to be written.


    By the CBO’s reckoning, the federal government’s true debt last year was $8.5 trillion — more than twice the debt held by the public, which we generally think of as the national debt. That figure came to $4 trillion, only slightly more than the $3.9 trillion in future benefits owed to government employees and veterans.


    But even the $8.5 trillion figure is much too low because it excludes the really big debts that are owed for Social Security and Medicare. Since these obligations extend far into the future, the only way they can realistically be quantified is by using a statistical method called present value. This takes account of the fact that $1 fifty years from now is worth much less than $1 today. Future debts need to be discounted to put them into today’s dollars.


    Even with discounting, however, the figures are massive. The CBO estimates the unfunded liability for Social Security at $7.2 trillion. But this is virtually nothing next to the $37.6 trillion cost of Medicare. In short, we would need to have about $45 trillion in the bank today earning interest in order to pay all the promises that have been made for future Social Security and Medicare benefits — over and above the future taxes and premiums that will be collected to fund these programs.


    To put these numbers into a form that is comprehensible, the CBO has made a calculation of the future gross domestic product that will be produced over the same time period. These are the actual resources from which Social Security and Medicare benefits will be paid. The CBO estimates that we would have to raise taxes by 6.5 percent of GDP immediately and forever to maintain these programs in perpetuity. This year alone, that would mean a tax increase of $800 billion.


    This is why I believe it was utter insanity for the White House and Congress to have enacted an expansion of Medicare for prescription drugs last year. This one unconscionable action increased the long-term liability of Medicare by 1 percent of GDP forever.


    A key reason why they were able to get away with this idiotic action was that all the costs come well in the future — the program doesn’t even begin until 2006 and then phases-in for a few years before being fully effective. Thus, for a time, Republicans were able to promise something-for-nothing. It’s only a matter of time before taxes are sharply increased so that the elderly can get for free what the rest of us have to pay for ourselves.


    It goes without saying that if any private corporation had behaved the way the government has, it would soon find its executives being sentenced by a federal judge. It is illegal for businesses to keep their books the way the government does, hiding their long-term liabilities from shareholders the way the government disguises its indebtedness from voters.


    Writing in the Nebraska Law Review last year, George Washington University law professor Cheryl Block compared bookkeeping by the federal government to bookkeeping by businesses involved in corporate scandals. She found little difference. Congress, she wrote, "has been guilty of using accounting devices remarkably similar to those used by Enron, WorldCom and others to ‘cook the books’ and to mislead the public with regard to government finances."


    At least when a corporation misbehaves, there is an ultimate market check in the form of bankruptcy. Creative accounting can only go so far in covering up transactions that are fundamentally unsound. But national governments never go bankrupt and don’t have to worry about customers buying their goods and services for revenue. They just raise taxes or print money and keep on going. "As a result, temptations for the government to engage in creative accounting may be even greater than those in the private sector," Block suggested.


    It’s worth keeping this in mind the next time some congressional demagogue denounces corporate dishonesty.


    — Bruce Bartlett is senior fellow for the National Center for Policy Analysis. Write to him here.

  • [Blockierte Grafik: http://www.miningweekly.co.za/images/min/top/masthead.gif]


    Barrick sees gold hitting 1998 highs

    The world's third-largest bullion producer, Barrick Gold Corp, expects gold prices to touch their highest levels since 1998 in coming months, due to declining supply and a poor outlook for the US economy, the chief financial officer said yesterday.


    The gold price would move into the "mid-$400s to high-$400s" an ounce range by the end of this year and hold there next year, Jamie Sokalsky said on the sidelines of an international gold conference.


    "We are very bullish on the gold price," he said. "I am very optimistic that the price could rise to that level."


    Gold rose as high as $424,60/oz this year, but has not traded above $450 since 1998. It was trading around $401,25/oz on Monday.


    Newmont Mining Corp, the world's largest gold-miner, expects gold to trade between $380 and $450 or higher for the next 12 months, its president, Pierre Lassonde, said on Sunday.


    Toronto-based Barrick plans to reduce further its hedge book, a series of forward contracts entered into to guarantee a minimum price for gold.


    Many miners have scrapped or reduced their hedges because they also put a lid on the maximum price, preferring to take their chances on global bullion prices that have risen around 40% since 2002.


    "We are going to use the volatility of the gold market to continue to reduce our hedge position. I think there's still a lot of dehedging to be done in the industry," Sokalsky said.


    Barrick slashed its hedge book by 850 000 oz, to 13,9-million ounces, or 16% of its in-the-ground reserves, during the second quarter.


    "We have year-end reserves of 86-million ounces of gold, which is among the highest in the world, and unhedged reserves of over 71-million ounces," he said.


    Hedging has been blamed for restricting demand and weakening prices because gold purchasers have already bought unmined metal for future delivery. Dehedging, on the other hand, stimulates demand.


    Last week, Australian miner Sons and Gwalia said it faced bankruptcy after discovering its mines did not have enough gold to cover its hedges.


    Newmont's Lassonde said he expected companies would declare bankruptcy as liabilities in their hedge books continued to grow.


    Sokalsky said in addition to a poor outlook for the US economy and the dollar, tighter supply also supported gold.


    "Also (there's) a declining supply in the market place because there has been less exploration. Between mines supply and demand, there's a shortage in the neighbourhood of anywhere from 500 t to higher," he said.


    "That supply has been met by some central bank selling but that differential between supply and demand should widen over time," he said. - Reuters.

    „Die Menschen sind so einfältig und hängen so sehr vom Eindruck des Augenblickes ab, dass einer, der sie täuschen will, stets jemanden findet, der sich täuschen lässt.“ (Niccolò Machiavelli)

  • Spieler0815


    Ob Du nun glaubst es gäbe Silber im Ueberfluss, oder nicht, ist Deine eigene Schlussfolgerung. Ob Du selbst an steigende, oder fallende Silberpreise glaubst ist ebenfalls Deine Sache, und Du kannst hier im Thread auch Deine Ansichten zum Silber nach Lust und laune posten.


    Wenn Du aber jetzt plötzlich unrichtige, und nachweislich falsche Behauptungen zum Silber Verbrauch verbreitest, und suggerierst ein Produktionsdefizit existiere gar nicht, ist das nicht nur mehr Deine Sache. Es ist nicht nur unseriös, unsachlich, sondern zeugt davon, dass es Dir nicht darum gehen kann zum Thema Silber beitragen zu wollen.


    Auf was stützt Du eigentlich Forderungen nach Beweisen für ein Silber Defizit!


    Wenn Du die Aussagen von Butler, und meine eigenen genau liest, kannst Du unschwer festellen, dass von einem


    Silber Produktions Defizit


    gesprochen wurde, und NICHT von einem Silber Defizit !


    Dieses Silber Produktions Defizit ist eine Tatsache


    und wird jedes Jahr vom Silber Institut mehrmals veröffentlicht, der offiziellen Vertretung des Silberproduzierenden, und Silberverarbeitenden Gewerbe. Diese Zahlen die quartalsweise veröffentlicht werden, und

    seit 14 Jahren in Folge ein Silber Produktions Defizit ausweisen,


    sind ja wohl Beweis genug, dass weltweit weniger Silber produziert, als von den silberverbrauchenden, oder silberverarbeitenden Firmen weltweit benötigt wird.


    Da ich auf Grund Deiner Postings annehmen muss, dass Dir das Silberinstitut noch nicht bekannt ist, hier noch der Link:


    http://www.silverinstitute.org/


    Den Silber Bugs ist diese Tatsache seit Jahren bekannt, und deshalb investieren sie bereits seit längerer Zeit in Silber, und nicht erst dann, wenn als naheliegendes Ergebnis des seit 14 Jahren bestehende Silber Produktions Defizites es sich in ein wirkliches Silber Defizit verwandeln wird. Es ist bei einer weiterhin bestehen, und auch gerade jetzt wieder stark steigenden Nachfrage nach physischem Silber, bei gleichzeitigem weltweiten Silber Produktions Rückgang (Beide Tatsachen kannst Du ebenfalls beim Silber Institut nachlesen), keine Frage OB es zu einem Silber Defizit kommt, sondern nur eine Frage WANN dieser Zustand eintreten wird.


    Dich mögen die Aussagen von Butler nerven, und auf den Wecker gehen. Du wirst vermutlich auch nicht der einzige bleiben der das so sieht. Das ist jeweil eine Ansichtssache!


    Meiner Ansicht nach, hat sich Butler wie nur ganz wenig andere Leute neben ihm, für die Sache der Silber Bugs eingesetzt, und mich nervt er keineswegs. Ich bin mir persönlich absolut sicher, dass die Vorwürfe an die Seite der Silberpreis Manipulateure mehr als nur zustreffend sind. Auch wenn es für Leute die sich mit Silber noch wenig auseinandergesetzt haben, oder Personen die einfach nicht verstehen können, oder wollen, was nicht schwarz auf weiss bewiesen ist, oder von der offiziellen Presse als Wahrheit publiziert wird, etwas schwer zu verstehen ist.


    Die Einsicht, dass es von Vorteil ist physisches Silber, den derivativen Instrumenten, wie sogenannten Silber Zertifikaten der Bullion Banken vorzuziehen, wird leider immer noch viel zu wenig verstanden, und führt dann manchmal sogar zu ganz grotesken Vergleichen, bei denen Kartoffeln mit Silber verglichen werden.


    Als Anhang die neuste Veröffentlichung des Silber Institutes!


    Wie Du unschwer festellen kannst Spieler0815, wurden weltweit von allen Minen folgende Silber Mengen produziert ! Produktion gegenüber 2002 rückläufig!


    2002 = 596.4 Millionen Unzen Silber
    2003 = 595,6 Millionen Unzen Silber


    Die totale Silber Nachfrage war jedoch bedeutend höher! Die Nachfrage gegenüber 2002 steigend!


    2002 = 845.8 Millionen Unzen Silber
    2003 = 859.2 Millionen Unzen Silber


    Die Differenz wurde durch Recycling Silber, und Regierungsverkäufe ausgeglichen. Die Zahlen kannst Du ebenfalls ersehen.


    Die diesjährigen Zahlen werden aller Wahrscheinlichkeit nach mit Sicherheit wieder ein Silber Produktions Defizit ausweisen. Die Nachfrage nach Silber dürfte sich im laufenden Jahr 2004 sogar überproportional erhöht haben, und die Produktion vermutlich wiederum Rückläufig sein, oder bestenfalls stabil bleiben.


    Das bei BEWIESENEM Sachverhalt eines bereits seit 14 Jahren bestehenen Silber PRODUKTIONS DEFIZIT, die Vermutung mehr als naheliegt, dass der bestehende Nachfrage Ueberhang nicht unendlich weiter durch Regierungs-Silber-Lieferungen gedeckt werden kann, ohne dass die Quellen an Regierungs Silber eines Tages völlig erschöpft sind. Ueber den Zeitpunkt kann man sich Unterhalten, und gegenteiliger Meinung sein, nicht aber ob ein Silber Produktionsdefizit besteht, oder nicht, wie Du es leider gemacht hast.



    Gruss


    Thaiguru

  • [Blockierte Grafik: http://allafrica.com/img/static/aa-trans_200x116.gif]


    http://allafrica.com/stories/200409090390.html


    Gold Fields to Target SADC, South America


    Business Day


    (Johannesburg)


    September 9, 2004

    Posted to the web September 9, 2004


    John Fraser , Resources Editor
    Johannesburg


    Mine group plans to expand existing projects


    WORLD No4 gold producer Gold Fields is expected to target future international acquisitions in SA's neighbours and in countries on the west coast of South America, CE Ian Cockerill said yesterday.


    Cockerill said the group planned to grow through expansion of existing projects and exploration, and also by acquisition, and he highlighted the two regions as the likely destinations for corporate activity.


    Gold Fields is preparing to reverse-list into Canada's Iamgold, after which its operations in SA and its neighbours will be run from Johannesburg, while its global operations will be run from North America, with Iamgold being renamed Gold Fields International.


    Cockerill told an analysts' briefing in London yesterday that Mvelaphanda had a 15% stake in Gold Fields' South African operations, and that this partnership would offer Gold Fields new opportunities elsewhere in the Southern African Development Community .


    "There is no lack of opportunities in this region," he said.


    Countries with interesting prospects included the Democratic Republic of Congo, Tanzania and Madagascar.


    When asked about international opportunities for Gold Fields International, Cockerill said he was "not fixated" on acquisition targets in any particular region.


    But he said Gold Fields was underrepresented in the Americas, and that there were attractive gold deposits on the west coast of South America.


    The group was planning to develop the Cerro Corona gold mine in Peru, which would give it a foothold in the region, "and we will continue to look at increasing our exposure there".


    Once established, it would be easier to assess and pounce on further projects.


    Gold Fields would look more widely for quality assets, but the region it acquired new projects in was less important than the assurance that future acquisitions enhanced shareholder value.


    He said there had been a fall-off in South African production since 2000, but suggested this was a natural response to the ore bodies being in deep-level, mature mines.


    The decline in South African production would be more than compensated for by expansion elsewhere.


    But Gold Fields wanted to focus on "a few, high-quality ore bodies", and was not interested in assembling a "telephone directory of mines".


    "If you have too many mines, the mines start to manage you; you don't manage the mines," he said.


    Cockerill said that as well as planning to boost production by 1,5-million ounces a year over the next five years Gold Fields also wanted to grow the market, suggesting that as a senior player in the gold industry he believed that Gold Fields had to take some responsibility for boosting demand.


    This would be through helping to grow the gold jewellery market, and for investment gold items.


    Cockerill said although the group sought to expand outside SA, suggestions that it had an exit strategy from SA could not be "further from the truth".


    It was wise for resource companies not to have all their eggs in a one-country basket, and the volatility of the rand was one factor behind Gold Fields' wish to have more mine projects in dollar-denominated regions.


    The decision to reverse-list into Iamgold had been the best option, but Gold Fields had also considered a more direct initial public offering listing of its international assets offshore.

  • [Blockierte Grafik: http://www.goldseek.com/images/gslogo.jpg]


    http://news.goldseek.com/AuthenticMoney/1094762002.php


    [Blockierte Grafik: http://www.goldseek.com/news/A…Money/authenticmoney1.JPG]


    Gold –The Weekly Global Perspective w-e 10th September 2004

    By: Julian D. W. Phillips, Gold-Authentic Money - Authenticmoney.com


    [Blockierte Grafik: http://news.goldseek.com/AuthenticMoney/julian.jpg]


    That was the week that was


    This week the $ / Euro play continues to allow the hedge funds to hold sway over the market, as gold hovered round support levels and then fell below them, only to challenge these, now resistance levels, immediately after the very different words from Greenspan. His words of warning certainly lowered expectations of a rate rise in the near future, sending the $ down through its support levels.


    The market was thin, through the week, so the hedge funds, with small activities dictated the moves and dealers positioned themselves, by pricing in expected moves, quickly. Like a sea with changing tides, the waves sent mixed signals to the players. With the Technical picture still on a knife’s edge, the market was skittish and the funds saw an opportunity. They saw the break in support and went short with some vigour, only to turn round and cover the shorts as Greenspan’s words turned them around. Normally they would have had a great price impact, but a market that wants to hold its level and rise, because of fundamentals factors, cannot be pushed down for long. Greenspan’s comments did just that. If tomorrow is another “Frantic Friday”. It will be a churning one seeking direction. The question will be then, will it find it?


    Short term prospects for the price:


    The tone has changed, without doubt. Greenspan’s confidence in the recovery is nowhere near the levels it was last time he spoke and the time before, even with his positive remark, “the expansion has regained some traction”. The market will have to absorb his comments carefully and adjust to the nuances he gave. No wonder the long term [10yr] T-bond rates have been dropping whilst the market talked itself into rising rates. Should you question this perspective, have a look at one of his earlier in the year speeches. We expect to see this adjustment in perceptions continue not just in the short term but the medium and long term too.


    But first there may be hesitation in the market’s actions as it re-evaluates the big picture, before acting. The funds will do their best to ‘whip up the surf’, as they tried to do in the last week [unsuccessfully] in gold. Our advice to make sure you are ready for the Autumn [not the fall], is sound and those who do understand the market are ready and are taking positions. Are you? [Look at our services below, to see where you can get ready]


    The Euro broke upwards through resistance, this week after the chairman’s speech to close to $1.22. Most expected $ strength, which did not come allowing the gold price in Euros to stay above Euros 326, still.


    With the physical market buying on dips, as all professionals do, they will not be pushed into a position where they have to pay more. They will pick the time to buy, using the futures and options markets to smooth their supply requirements, so do not expect a flood of buying from them to dominate. That flood will steadily take from the markets as tides affect the sea, but they will leave the wave making hedge funds et al, to define the very short term prices.


    We give the definitive short term Technical picture with price guidance in our new “Changing Tack – The Metals”, Changing Tack – The Indices” and “Changing Tack – The Ratios”. We have other publications, which may suit you better, so please contact us directly for details. See below for our medium and long term Technical picture services.


    At the time of writing gold stood at $399.10 and Euros 327.32. The Euro itself is worth $1.2193.


    Large Scale Speculators.


    With momentum players going short, then changing direction later in mid week, the tendency for the large scale speculators was to reduce their exposure overall. The market saw some long positions liquidated in a move that was interpreted as ‘looking for direction’. The net position pulled back, if we add in the moves after the numbers were taken, last week Friday, of around 342 tonnes, down from 367 tonnes the previous week.


    This indicates to us that the “Sons of Gwalia” position has now been squared with the banks. Clearly they are not going to venture out again until they hear the Trade deficit tomorrow and the retail figures next week. They will watch the impact on the $ of these numbers before their next play.


    China – The Central Bank Governor speaks on Gold!


    Considering that China and its approaching 2 billion people are growing in wealth at a dynamic rate perhaps one of the most important statements made about gold was made this week. In no uncertain terms, the Governor of the Bank of China has shown that the government of China, is determined to increase the levels of gold held in China, by Chinese citizens.

    It is a lot easier to encourage this than for the Central Bank to go into the open market to acquire gold for its reserves.

    In his speech to the London Bullion Market Conference in Shanghai, the Chinese Central Bank Governor, Zhou Xiaochuan, made it absolutely clear that the Chinese government wanted its citizens to own gold! Trading in gold will provide another choice for individual investors who keep their money in bank accounts due to a lack of desirable investment options, the official Xinhua News Agency quoted the central bank governor, Zhou Xiaochuan, as saying.

    Trading by individual investors [in gold] would unlock some of the 1.2 trillion yuan (U.S.$145 billion; Euro 119 billion) now kept idle in bank savings accounts, he confirmed the governments position with these remarks in particular, taken from his speech this week.


    "China will speed up the opening of its gold market to bring gold exchanges more in line with international practice," ……………."China's gold market will eventually become one inseparable part of the international gold market." …………. He then gave motive for the citizens of China for turning to gold, saying, “Futures gold trading will provide gold consumers and buyers a channel to protect against price shifts," ……."It may also give those who want to take profit on betting on price trends another investment channel."………”trading of the physical commodity would allow individuals to hedge their investments against swings in inflation”. Earlier this year, he had indicated that by further developing the gold market, creating safety and a highly efficient gold trading system and exploring new trading products with investment and hedging functions, the Chinese gold market would fulfil a transition from the present spot market to a comprehensive financial market.

    The moves have been taking place steadily over the last year, but for the inscrutable government, through the key official in this matter, the Chinese government has become unequivocal on gold.
    For the solidly determined nature of the Chinese government, this could not be a stronger pro-gold statement than it is! The ramifications go far further than the simple projection of a tripling of gold purchases in China to 600 tonnes within a decade. 600 tonnes would cost a mere $7.716 billion of the $145 billion Zhou referred to, a paltry 5% of this amount. If the Chinese hear his words and act, it will not be a ‘slow boat’ that takes it there, but 600 tonnes of gold will reach China in a lot quicker time than a decade!

    But of deep significance is the now disclosed attitude of the Central Chinese Bank towards gold. There positive attitude is not merely accommodating gold keen citizens, but seen in the context of the changing attitude of Central Banks towards gold, no doubt it should positively influence many other Central Bankers globally, on their thoughts towards gold, as a reserve asset and an alternative to the $!

    Transactions on the Shanghai Gold Exchange totalled 235.35 tons valued at 22.96 billion yuan (US$2.7 billion; euro 2.3 billion) last year. In the first seven months of this year, trading volume jumped to 363.76 tons valued at 36.9 billion yuan (US$4.5 billion; euro 3.6 billion).

    Hedgers beware - Aussie Gold shares after “Sons of Gwalia”


    The aftermath of the fall of the “Sons of Gwalia”, has been similar to the fortunes of Barrick, prior to turning against Hedging. The stark reality of the risk taken on by hedgers when they went too far in their hedging was a down rating of the performance of the share. The same seems to be happening to Aussie shares. Do not be surprised to see a further lowering of hedging levels even amongst those who have and still are lowering their hedging levels! Pierre Lassonde, the president of the world’s biggest gold company Newmont Mining, fuelled the fire. “Gold hedge books are real liabilities that will continue to grow and likely sink more gold companies,”


    The U.S. Recovery.


    It seemed a week ago so ‘cut and dried’. The near certainty that a 25 basis point interest rate rise and the sustainability of the recovery was apparently established! We all expected Mr Greenspan to give us words of confidence in the future. The whole year we have been told the recovery has taken off, that it is sustainable and the future looks good. Then came the speech from the Chairman of the Federal Reserve. He gave us small items of comfort, but occasionally cloaking them with a warning that it was not going to last into the medium and the long term. He told us, “Consumer spending and housing starts bounced back in July after weak performances in June, although early readings on retail sales in August have been mixed”…… “In the manufacturing sector, output has continued to move up in recent months, though part of that rise likely reflected an increase in inventory investment. In the labour market, though job gains were smaller than those of last spring, non-farm payroll employment growth picked back up in August”……. “Nevertheless, the outlook for oil prices remains uncertain. Higher prices have damped the consumption of oil--for example, U.S. gasoline consumption, seasonally adjusted, fell about 200,000 barrels a day between April and July. But the growing concerns about long-term supply, along with large prospective increases in demand from the rapidly growing economies of China and India, both of which are expanding in ways that are relatively energy intensive, have propelled prices of distant futures to levels well above their ranges of recent years”………..


    “Nonetheless, the prospects for the federal budget over the longer term remain troubling. As yet, concerns about the budget do not appear to have left a noticeable imprint on the financial markets.”………. “These developments, however, do not warrant complacency about the fiscal outlook. With the baby boomers starting to retire in a few years and health spending continuing to soar, our budget position will almost surely deteriorate substantially in coming years if current policies remain in place.”…….


    This has been entirely consistent with our expressed views for the bulk of this year, sad to say. This speech in our opinion has certainly removed the doubts about Mr Greenspan’s integrity, with the elections approaching, for it is unreserved in its castigation of governments and their failure to prepare for the future. His picture of the future pulled no punches, whilst pointing out the positive, stating that effective controls should be in place to ward off the potential disasters of the ‘baby boomer’ retirement bomb. We recommend you read his words directly to get the sense of the dangers the future poses.


    It reminded us of the story of the man who fell off the 50 floor building, who was heard to say as he passed the 12th floor, “So far, so good”. We will be pointing out the ramifications of his speech for gold, in the next issue of “Gold – Authentic Money” & “Gold – Authentic Money – Gold’s Macro Economic scene” .


    Beware of the dressing up of this picture, or the elimination of key parts of what was said and the dangers of Mr Greenspan’s own opinions being wrong. Let’s face it, while consumption was strong in July, it was boosted by large and unsustainable auto incentives, and the evidence suggests August was a disappointing month for retailers. Indeed, even the numbers from the chain stores were extremely poor, with one economist expressing scepticism about the August Payroll figures, saying the increases came form the ‘seasonals’. The International Council of Shopping Centers said same-store sales rose just 1.1% last month, below an already reduced forecast of 1.5%. In addition, more than 80% of the non-farm payroll gain in August came from government estimates of new business start-ups. In addition with Ford laying off 800 workers and more expected, and Delta Airlines cutting 7,000 jobs and implying bankruptcy was possible, it is getting difficult to believe we have the strong recovery all were punting in the first half of this year. As we said earlier, we doubt we will see another rate hike before the election, even tough the bulk of the market is still talking Fed rates up. This sent the $ through its support levels!


    Silver $6.14


    The price broke down this week, heading quickly for $6.00 as we thought it would. This after a thin week where total speculative positions only dropped 9 million ounces down from a total of 347 million ounces. There are many silver bulls out there who may well be right in the longer term, but right now the bears are in charge.


    Platinum $827


    Barely any change in the total speculative position with a 1,000 ounce increase in total speculative positions. With the metal moving slightly better than, but still in tandem with, the Euro, the picture will continue to reflect the overall precious metals picture.


    The London Gold Fix


    Gold Fix 9th September a.m. $399.25 E 327.791


    9th September p.m. $398.70 E 327.528

  • @ Thaiguru (oder andere)


    Kannst du präzisieren, welche Mengen des Nachfrageüberhangs beim Silber jeweils durch Recycling und durch Regierungsverkäufe ausgeglichen werden? Gibt es Vermutungen, wieviel die Chinesen noch lagern? Wäre es möglich, das Defizit allein durch Recycling auszugleichen?
    Eine mit Fakten belegte Antwort wäre sehr hilfreich.
    Danke, Skeptiker

  • Skeptiker,


    es gibt Zahlen, dass die USA in den 50er/60er Jahren noch zig Mio. Unzen Silber als Reserve hielten. Diese Reserve gibt es mittlerweile nicht mehr, so dass sie gezwungen sind auch das Silber für die Münzprägung zu kaufen.


    Im Frühjahr veröffentlichte der Central Fund of Canada, die vor allem in Gold/Silber anlegen, zuletzt seine Zahlen. Hier war gegenüber den Quartalen zuvor eine sehr stark steigende Nachfrage nach Silber zu beobachten.


    Gruß


    Silbertaler

  • ThaiGuru


    Hallo Thaiguru,
    danke, daß Du den Unterschied zwischen Silber Defizit und Silber Produktionsdefizit so klar herausgearbeitet hast.
    So ganz verstehe ich aber Deine Aufregung nicht... Wenn ich nachfolgenden Kommentar von Dir lesen, dann sind wir uns doch sogar völlig einig:


    "Das bei BEWIESENEM Sachverhalt eines bereits seit 14 Jahren bestehenen Silber PRODUKTIONS DEFIZIT, die Vermutung mehr als naheliegt, dass der bestehende Nachfrage Ueberhang nicht unendlich weiter durch Regierungs-Silber-Lieferungen gedeckt werden kann, ohne dass die Quellen an Regierungs Silber eines Tages völlig erschöpft sind. Ueber den Zeitpunkt kann man sich Unterhalten, und gegenteiliger Meinung sein, nicht aber ob ein Silber Produktionsdefizit besteht, oder nicht, wie Du es leider gemacht hast."


    Daraus kann man ableiten, daß man so, wie Du, Butler und Co argumentieren, nun schon 14 lange Jahre argumentieren konnte...
    Wer sagt Euch, daß nicht noch genügend Silber, woher auch immer, kommt, so daß es 14 Jahre so weiter geht...


    14 Jahre lang hat das Gelabere um ein Silber-PRODUKTIONS-Defizit NICHTS, aber auch NICHTS gebracht...


    Ja, irgendwann wird sich das vielleicht einmal ändern... oder auch nicht...


    Ich sage also lediglich: Es gibt momentan kein SILBER DEFIZIT.


    Und ob es nun ein Produktions-Defizit gibt oder nicht, ist mir solange egal, bis der Markt Anzeichen dafür zeigt, daß eines nahe bevorsteht.
    Und sei Dir gewiß:


    Wenn ein Silber-Defizit droht, dann wird der Markt das schnell zeigen.


    Momentan sieht es aber nicht danach aus - und wenn Du Pech hast, wird das vielleicht noch 14 Jahre oder 28 Jahre (wie alt bist Du eigentlich aktuell, Thaiguru) dauern...


    Ich würde insoweit auf eine gesunde Ernährung, nicht zu fettes Essen, ein angemessenes Körpergewicht achten und mich fit halten... und wer das beachtet, wird vielleicht eines fernen Tages triumphieren können.


    Bis jetzt ist es aber so, daß Butler und Co nichts anderes tun, als erfolglose Roulettespieler, die schon 14 mal auf Rot gesetzt haben, während jedoch immer wieder Schwarz kam...


    Rein statistisch MUSS nun aber Rot kommen.... oder ?


    Roulette und der Silbermarkt sind dabei m.E. so unvergleichbar nicht:


    Denn wenn Du nicht den leisesten Schimmer hast, wieviel Silber irgendwo noch existiert (China), dann ist das letztlich auch ein Glücksspiel, auf steigenden Silberpreis zu setzen...


    Was völlig ok ist. Aber das Geschreie von Butler und Co kann doch echt kaum noch jemand hören...


    Viele Grüße
    Spieler0815

    "So wie die Freiheit bleibt Gold nie lange dort, wo es nicht geschätzt wird."
    J.S.Morill in einer Rede vor dem U.S.-Senat am 28.01.1878.

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